PTT體育區 / Celtics (波士頓 塞爾提克)

[外電] How much is Big Baby Worth to You?

看板Celtics (波士頓 塞爾提克)作者 (瓶子不是這樣看低)時間17年前 (2009/07/14 22:12), 編輯推噓37(37推 0噓 60→)
留言97則, 25人參與, 最新討論串1/1
PS. 這篇算是作者的討論吧XD 其實沒啥"新"聞 新聞出處(必填): http://celticshub.com/2009/07/14/how-much-is-big-baby-worth-to-you/ 作者:Brian Robb With a couple seemingly minor moves in the NBA yesterday, the market for big men and especially Glen Davis just got a heck of a lot more interesting. Let’ s break down the moves and see how they could potentially drive the price tag for Big Baby up which would go along with decreasing the likelihood the Celtics will be able to retain his services by matching a high priced offer. 有關近來的小道消息，讓大家對於big man的目光集中在大寶貝上。來看看近來市場上 有啥動作以及來看看有關對於大寶他們準備怎麼出價。 Move #1: Detroit trades SG Aaron Afflalo, PF Walter Sharpe and cash to Denver for a future 2nd round pick. 消息#1. 活塞把Afflalo+Sharpe+錢去換金塊的2輪選秀權。 The deal was made here for a couple simple reasons as far as the Pistons were concerned. First off with the signing of Ben Gordon, it created a crowded backcourt situation for the team with Richard Hamilton all ready signed long term. That reality created no major minutes left for Afflalo who was shipped out of town to help Denver replace Dhantay Jones who fled to Indiana for a 4 year 11 million dollar deal. 活塞會做這舉動有幾個簡單的原因： 1.)因為簽了狗蛋，而原本又有RIP，所以Afflalo自然會連上場時間都沒有。而Afflalo 去了丹佛也正好填補Dhantay Jones轉隊後留下的空缺。 The second and more important reason the deal was made as far as the Celtics are concerned, was the additional cap space that was created for the Pistons with the trade. Afflalo and Sharpe’s salary combine to make up 1.8 million, and by not dealing for a player in return, that was the amount Joe Dumars was able to reduce the team’s number under the salary cap, which now stands at 4.9 million according to Dan Feldman over at PistonPowered.com. 2.)也是比較重要的一個原因，當然目標是大寶貝囉。Afflalo+Sharpe的錢大概總和1.8M ，而且交易完後並沒有拿到球員，表示有多的空間以及薪資來爭取大寶貝的加入。 而依照http://tinyurl.com/kqtpfm的資料參考知道，目前活塞隊的薪資距離上限還有 $4,906,077 也就是差不多5M的薪資可用。 By dealing Sharpe, this deal also left Detroit extremely thin on the front line, leaving it with only three players who could be considered as power forward/centers in Charlie Villanueva, Jason Maxiell, and Kwame Brown. Thus it seems Detroit will be going after one, if not two big man free agents out there and it has been widely reported that one of those players will be Glen Davis. 不過也因為把Sharpe丟掉了，現在的活塞禁區是非常小的。只剩下無眉人、Maxiel以及 奶油手。所以活塞看起來至少還要找一個，而看起來那個人就是我們的大寶貝。 From the Celtics perspective, it can’t be encouraging for them to see Detroit stockpiling cap space, increasing the odds that they will make an offer to Davis that the C’s will be unwilling to match. The Celtics have been smart waiting it out with Big Baby thus far, trying to let a seemingly down market drive down Baby’s price and suitors as many teams (San Antonio, Orlando, Memphis) looked elsewhere to fill their big man needs. 對於超塞來說，活塞清空間是不樂觀的。因為活塞很可能會出一個超塞並不想跟的價錢。 超塞目前的策略就是等待，試著讓市場把大寶貝的價格給降低以及隨著時間降低追求大 寶貝的追求者的個數。 According to Gary Tanguay, Danny Ainge has placed a dollar value on Big Baby’ s worth. Last year we witnessed firsthand Danny’s reluctance to overpay for a role player in the form of James Posey. In my estimation, the signing of Rasheed Wallace made the need for the Celtics to bring back Big Baby a bit less pressing since Rasheed will be able to log major minutes at the 4 and 5 spots. If they have to overpay Davis (5 million over several years) to keep him here, Wallace in town made the chances of that happening a bit less likely. 根據GT的說法，安吉對大寶貝已有個定數。去年我們可以看到安吉並不想跟Posey。而在 作者的眼裡，簽下希蛙可能會使續簽大寶貝的可能性降低。 The C’s are well over the luxury tax as it is, so it is clear that while the team does want to bring Baby back, they will only do it if the price is right. If the C’s don’t bring back Davis, there are still affordable free agent options out there at the big man spots albeit not ones as attractive as Davis. Realistically though whoever the C’s bring in as a fifth big man (Scalabrine being the 4th) would only have to go 10-15 minutes a game barring injury since Rasheed will eat up the bulk of the bench big man minutes. 超塞已經差不多要繳豪華稅了，因此很明確的，要簽下大寶貝唯有用適當地價格才能簽下 。要是超塞不要大寶貝，仍然能在剩下的FA中找到大個子球員，儘管不像大寶貝那麼好用 。不過老實說，簽下第五個禁區球員(吉祥物算第四個好了)，一場比賽頂多也只能上10-1 5分鐘。因為希蛙會用得很頻繁。 Given the assumption that there are no major injury problems, (a realistic concern given KG and Rasheed’s age) it would be unwise for the C’s to invest too much money in the backup 4 spot when Glen’s minutes would be limited thanks to the depth chart. 假設主力沒傷痛問題，那超支大寶貝並不是很好得選擇。 It has to worry fans that want Big Baby back in green that Joe Dumars has shown the willingness to overpay at bit this offseason to get his guys (Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva). Now that he has the cap room to offer Big Baby a significant deal at a little under 5 million a year, if he does give Davis a long term contract at that number, the C’s will have to think long and hard about matching it. There are really no other big men on the open market right now that could command that kind of money, so it seems only a matter of time before Dumars makes Glen the big money offer he has been waiting for. 對於想要Baby留下的球迷很可能要說聲抱歉，因為Joe Dumars已經展現他就算要超支球員 也要簽下的決心(狗蛋、無眉人都是)。而現在他又有足夠的空間以接近5M來簽大寶貝，要 是他給大寶貝一個這樣長約，那超塞的眼光必須放遠以及該是時候放棄了。 以現在的市場上並沒有禁區球員值得那麼多錢，所以Dumars來迎接大寶貝似乎只剩下時間 的問題了\(〞﹌〝*)/。 Numbers wise in my estimation, Glen is not worth the 5 million a year on this team and the team would be better served to sign a lower price short term alternative to fill Big Baby’s role. Perhaps, someone like a Joe Smith, Drew Gooden, or Rasho Nesterovic could fill Baby’s spot. Those guys are downgrades to be sure, but will be a lot cheaper and could be had for only a year or two commitment. Before we finish this up, let’s take a look at a 2nd move from Monday that could affect the C’s pursuit of those guys. 作者認為大寶貝並不值5M/year，而且超塞應該要找一個低薪的球員以取代大寶貝的位置， 譬如，Joe Smith,Drew Gooden或是大N。雖然他們的數據不好，但是至少便宜多了，而且 只需簽個一或兩年。再來看看可能會影響超塞的第二個消息。 Move #2 Orlando Magic retain Marcin Gortat after matching the Mavericks’ 5 year/34 million offer sheet. 消息#2. 魔術留下鍋貼，讓小牛白出價了。 The loss of Gortat hurts the Mavs depth right now more than you might imagine. The non-signing and loss of Brandon Bass (4 years/18 million) to the Magic leaves the Mavs current roster with a very thin front line bench. After Dampier and Nowitzki it consists of Shawn Marion as a potential undersized 6th man at the 4 (he might start anyway over Howard) and a couple of throw-ins (Kris Humphries and Nathan Jawai) they received to make the salaries work in the Marion deal. 小牛的禁區深度目前很慘，沒補強到還少一個Bass。蛋皮+德老外加一個第六人香妹(應該 是德老的替補)，還有兩個跑龍套的Kris Humphries與Nathan Jawai(這兩個只為了打平 交易香妹過來的)。 I mention this only because their need for big man could drive up the market for the big man free agents I mentioned earlier if the C’s were to lose Big Baby. Heck, they could even potentially get in on the Big Baby sweepstakes even though Mark Cuban denied they had any interest in him a few months back. With fewer options now, Cuban may have to reconsider although he could try to fill the void with a trade as well. 小牛禁區也是很薄，因此也可能看上大寶貝。雖然庫班之前說對他沒興趣，不過現在FA 市場上的選擇是越來越少，故庫班也可能重新考慮。 So I guess my question to everyone as I work through all these potential scenarios is what exactly is Big Baby worth to you? Zach Lowe took an eye opening look at Big Baby’s numbers and performance on the floor this past year, which should help everyone in coming to a conclusion. Knowing that should ownership match a 5 million dollar offer at 3 plus years if it comes at the expense of better players to fill the backup small forward and point guard spots? Is Big Baby actually worth five million? What price tag would you put on him? And would you consider signing and trading Davis to fill a more pressing need (backup SF) on the team if it was likely you were going to lose him anyway? I’m curious to hear everyone’s opinion on this as it appears likely to shake itself out sooner than later. 所以到底該不該match 3年5M/year的大寶貝或是去找一個PP或小豆子的替補? 揪竟大寶貝 有沒有值5M呢? 你覺得他應該值多少? 或是你覺得拿大寶貝先簽後換去找一個替補SF來會 比較好? 我真的很好奇。 -- ███ ███ █ █ ███ ██▎ ███ ██ █▂▂ █▎█ ██▎ ███ █▆▂ █▆█ ▍█▋ ██▆ ▊█▎ █▆▆ ██ █▂█ ███ ▊█▎ ██▆ █▊█ █▂█ ▍█▋ ██▆ ▊██ ▆▆█ ██ ███ █▎█ ▊██ ██▆ R by ωaterζantasy -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 220.141.47.145
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07/14 22:18, , 1F
PP和Ray的替補比較重要 因為現在沒替補
07/14 22:18, 1F
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07/14 22:21, , 2F
我比較想知道就算可以用2.5m簽大寶貝，會想簽嗎XD
07/14 22:21, 2F
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07/14 22:21, , 3F
還是先去找SF.SF的替補?
07/14 22:21, 3F
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07/14 22:23, , 4F
我覺得大寶貝很值得5M啊，只是我們簽不起而已
07/14 22:23, 4F
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07/14 22:23, , 5F
PP的替補還是沒有消息嗎？
07/14 22:23, 5F
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07/14 22:27, , 6F
我比較喜歡Powe
07/14 22:27, 6F
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07/14 22:34, , 7F
大寶貝是很好用沒錯 但也有可能只是在隊伍的體系下
07/14 22:34, 7F
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07/14 22:44, , 8F
能在季後賽有這種效率，5M值了
07/14 22:44, 8F
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07/14 22:45, , 9F
如果今天薪資沒那麼緊，球團就不會這麼斤斤計較了...
07/14 22:45, 9F
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07/14 22:47, , 10F
我也比較喜歡阿炮 因他夠硬防守好 雖然大寶機動性強
07/14 22:47, 10F
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07/14 22:48, , 11F
突然覺得有錢球隊真好 豪華稅付的不手軟
07/14 22:48, 11F
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07/14 22:51, , 12F
我倒覺得安吉公開說大寶貝只值2.5M是為了降低價格@"@
07/14 22:51, 12F
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07/14 22:51, , 13F
我比較想等powe的傷好
07/14 22:51, 13F
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07/14 22:52, , 14F
Powe真的只能等了QQ
07/14 22:52, 14F
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07/14 23:11, , 15F
等阿炮的傷好+1
07/14 23:11, 15F
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07/14 23:11, , 16F
說真的，大寶是真的該留，畢竟是一個肯搶肯拼的內線
07/14 23:11, 16F
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07/14 23:12, , 17F
在隊版我就不PO數字，整體來說內線總是比搖擺人稀少
07/14 23:12, 17F
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07/14 23:14, , 18F
今年選的搖擺人不滿意，明年還多得是，但能用的內線?
07/14 23:14, 18F
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07/14 23:38, , 19F
我真的不懂為什麼一定是非找PP的替補不可....
07/14 23:38, 19F
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07/14 23:39, , 20F
現在的陣容明明就可以很靈活的調度2~3號的位子
07/14 23:39, 20F
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07/14 23:40, , 21F
就算放TA替補好了 只要有兩到三隻攻擊能力強的球員
07/14 23:40, 21F
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07/14 23:41, , 22F
TA只要防守不出問題其實就夠了
07/14 23:41, 22F
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07/14 23:42, , 23F
而且KG也可以偶二打一下三號位 在加上吉祥物
07/14 23:42, 23F
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07/14 23:42, , 24F
如果河流讓年輕人們多上 當然不用替補
07/14 23:42, 24F
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07/14 23:42, , 25F
問題就在他不讓他們上場 你都沒看比賽嗎
07/14 23:42, 25F
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07/14 23:42, , 26F
其實三號位的替補並沒有那麼急迫啊....
07/14 23:42, 26F
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07/14 23:43, , 27F
.....原來有人覺得2.3號的替補不急 那算了
07/14 23:43, 27F
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07/14 23:44, , 28F
那就是河流的問題了啊 明明人員夠硬要把自己當家球
07/14 23:44, 28F
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07/14 23:44, , 29F
星操到爆...
07/14 23:44, 29F
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07/14 23:47, , 30F
但換個角度想 或許年輕人們也都跟TA差不多
07/14 23:47, 30F
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07/14 23:48, , 31F
沒打都不知道 現在說這些都沒用
07/14 23:48, 31F
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07/14 23:53, , 32F
PP都說他們還沒辦法上場了....
07/14 23:53, 32F
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07/15 00:42, , 33F
乾脆找Tim Thomas好了,至少是個高砲台.偶爾給些籃板
07/15 00:42, 33F
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07/15 00:45, , 34F
最好是可以融入防守體系的球員 安吉才愛用
07/15 00:45, 34F
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07/15 00:46, , 35F
河流... 囧
07/15 00:46, 35F
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07/15 00:54, , 36F
rumor 小牛要去搶ODEM了
07/15 00:54, 36F
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07/15 00:56, , 37F
ODOM
07/15 00:56, 37F
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07/15 01:05, , 38F
ROOM
07/15 01:05, 38F
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07/15 01:07, , 39F
3號根本沒替補...怎麼不急
07/15 01:07, 39F
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07/15 01:07, , 40F
TA只要上場就是問題
07/15 01:07, 40F
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07/15 01:08, , 41F
OPEN將
07/15 01:08, 41F
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07/15 01:16, , 42F
話說馬大少走了 有需要再補一個PG進來嗎？
07/15 01:16, 42F
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07/15 01:24, , 43F
3號位替補比其他所有的問題加起來都還要急迫
07/15 01:24, 43F
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07/15 01:25, , 44F
不管河流到底有沒有練新人
07/15 01:25, 44F
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07/15 01:26, , 45F
TA、B.Walker、Giddens在PP看來都還沒準備好
07/15 01:26, 45F
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07/15 01:29, , 46F
除非你不想多看KG打幾年 不然就讓他打3號吧....囧
07/15 01:29, 46F
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07/15 02:09, , 47F
Tim Thomas正是買斷了
07/15 02:09, 47F
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07/15 02:09, , 48F
式
07/15 02:09, 48F
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07/15 02:13, , 49F
有看到，不過好像有人說他防守不好? 是個6'10的射手
07/15 02:13, 49F
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07/15 02:34, , 50F
我覺得5M實在是非常尷尬的數字阿 真是會開價呢
07/15 02:34, 50F
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07/15 02:49, , 51F
其實也還沒報價吧 只是貌似活塞可以這樣出XD
07/15 02:49, 51F
話說這篇外電有寫說只要在5.6M以下超塞都會跟 http://tinyurl.com/mzf8uc Boston has said that it will match any offer to the 6-foot-9, 289-pound Davis under $5.6 million. 嘖嘖，是真是假不知道= =" ※ 編輯: rayensighner 來自: 220.141.47.145 (07/15 03:12)
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07/15 03:53, , 52F
這樣太貴了啦
07/15 03:53, 52F
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07/15 09:17, , 53F
當然要放話阿
07/15 09:17, 53F
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07/15 11:28, , 54F
大寶貝 我也覺得只值3M左右而已
07/15 11:28, 54F
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07/15 11:37, , 55F
同意樓上 我也覺得頂多3M/Year
07/15 11:37, 55F
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07/15 12:33, , 56F
ODOM值9M~10M的話，BIG BABY少說也有4~5M啦
07/15 12:33, 56F
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07/15 12:40, , 57F
Odom絕對值千萬 大寶雖然上季表現不俗 但要成為獨當
07/15 12:40, 57F
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07/15 12:41, , 58F
一面的禁區球員他還有一段路要走 他只是剛好適合我們
07/15 12:41, 58F
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07/15 12:41, , 59F
的隊形 我不覺得他去其他隊會跟在這裡一樣出色 去馬
07/15 12:41, 59F
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07/15 12:41, , 60F
刺可能還ok 因為TD跟KG都非常全能
07/15 12:41, 60F
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07/15 14:30, , 61F
我覺得5M稍嫌貴的原因是上季根本是他衝數據的機會
07/15 14:30, 61F
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07/15 14:31, , 62F
一般來說以他的身手根本不會有上季那麼多出賽時間吧
07/15 14:31, 62F
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07/15 14:33, , 63F
其實都是看教練給不給上場吧 很多球員都是需要機會的
07/15 14:33, 63F
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07/15 14:45, , 64F
恩阿 可是我覺得該給他的時間大概是第七第八人的份量
07/15 14:45, 64F
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07/15 14:46, , 65F
就這個角色5M實在是很微妙的價錢 Odom就值千萬
07/15 14:46, 65F
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07/15 14:46, , 66F
不過我連Bargnani都值五年五千萬了XD
07/15 14:46, 66F
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07/15 14:47, , 67F
覺得
07/15 14:47, 67F
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07/15 14:48, , 68F
上面那句推錯= = 我的意思是狀元郎值得
07/15 14:48, 68F
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07/15 14:48, , 69F
反正等著看吧~我覺得安吉應該又會神來一筆了~
07/15 14:48, 69F
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07/15 16:17, , 70F
也許可以考慮用Big Baby先簽後換，來點什麼東西.....
07/15 16:17, 70F
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07/15 16:18, , 71F
BBD如果用4.5百萬簽下來，我們也給不了太多時間.....
07/15 16:18, 71F
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07/15 16:19, , 72F
就算Perk+KG+Rasheed都上28分鐘，BBD也只有12分鐘
07/15 16:19, 72F
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07/15 16:30, , 73F
我覺得不能這樣算時間耶 就像上季誰想到KG會傷這麼
07/15 16:30, 73F
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07/15 16:31, , 74F
重 perk也有舊傷 要有保險的機制才能增加奪冠把握
07/15 16:31, 74F
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07/15 16:33, , 75F
去年也是有PJ來補上Perk受傷不能打的情形 不然很難說
07/15 16:33, 75F
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07/15 16:34, , 76F
尤其現在是老人隊了 "先發整季保持健康" 這機率<1/2
07/15 16:34, 76F
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07/15 16:41, , 77F
可是花4.5百萬買個保險???保險就是Rasheed呀....
07/15 16:41, 77F
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07/15 16:42, , 78F
就算有一個受傷了，去夏季聯盟中抓一個擋一下
07/15 16:42, 78F
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07/15 16:43, , 79F
戰力還是不會掉落太多的，我很喜歡BBD，但是有時候
07/15 16:43, 79F
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07/15 16:44, , 80F
在商言商，這個保險買的太貴，恐怕不是球隊能負荷
07/15 16:44, 80F
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07/15 17:35, , 81F
夏季聯盟抓上來的河流根本不會讓他上場...
07/15 17:35, 81F
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07/15 17:36, , 82F
季後賽就會再看到跟今年一樣的先發打滿場
07/15 17:36, 82F
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07/15 17:37, , 83F
拼到後來每隻都帶傷上陣
07/15 17:37, 83F
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07/15 17:49, , 84F
如果活塞開4百萬左右，就應該要Match嗎?
07/15 17:49, 84F
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07/15 20:12, , 85F
三號位置真的很缺 靠TA+那幾個菜鳥當PP替補 肖想冠軍
07/15 20:12, 85F
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07/15 20:13, , 86F
可能季賽還是能衝到60勝 但.... TA 吉祥物能賣就賣了
07/15 20:13, 86F
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07/15 21:28, , 87F
400我覺得是值得的 TA真的不可靠 要找個大鎖比較好
07/15 21:28, 87F
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07/15 21:31, , 88F
這就是盲點了呀，四百萬買BBD，那要補SF的錢從哪來?
07/15 21:31, 88F
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07/15 21:32, , 89F
要知道現在簽BBD四百萬等於八百萬呀，就會壓縮到球隊
07/15 21:32, 89F
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07/15 21:32, , 90F
預算去簽SF的部份，我當然希望球隊可以像大市場一樣
07/15 21:32, 90F
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07/15 21:33, , 91F
敢花錢補強，不過這也會影響到明年簽約的金額呀!!!!
07/15 21:33, 91F
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07/15 21:37, , 92F
連Gortat都賣到5年3400萬了...(／‵Д′)／~ ╧╧
07/15 21:37, 92F
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07/15 21:40, , 93F
明年PP可能重簽，加上Ray、House的約到期，BBD的約不
07/15 21:40, 93F
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07/15 21:40, , 94F
只剩下雙年吧
07/15 21:40, 94F
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07/15 21:43, , 95F
能太大，Rondo明年有QO，其實我們能有的空間不大
07/15 21:43, 95F
這裡有篇外電在聊 http://tinyurl.com/ma3jul 要是我們出大寶貝(5.9M先簽)+TA(2.5M)+吉祥物(3.41M) 去換Tyson Chandler(12.3M) 不過我個人覺得這不怎麼樣...因為下一季小錢還有1.3M的約才會走完，整個壓到我們 薪資。雖然有球員選擇權，不過怎麼看都不怎麼有趣XD。 ※ 編輯: rayensighner 來自: 220.141.47.145 (07/16 01:59)
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07/16 02:12, , 96F
乾脆叫bigbaby減肥改打小前一切問題就解決了(誤)
07/16 02:12, 96F
推
07/16 12:03, , 97F
第一、小錢傷病不斷。第二、你想要組成鋼鐵禁區嗎?
07/16 12:03, 97F
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