Re: [新聞]

看板FCBarcelona作者Ivanov (Visca Catalunya)時間14年前 (2010/07/30 12:13)推噓12(12推 0噓 5→)

留言17則, 15人參與討論串59/233 (看更多)

基本上我說的跟足球沒有相關不過看到這麼專業的文章讓我一整個熱血沸騰起來~~ (不好意思我是會計底的XD) 我就來翻譯加解釋一下 ※ 引述《Petrie ( )》之銘言： : ※ 引述《kevinishia (love will keep us alive)》之銘言： : : 3. 財政領域的副主席 Javier Faus 說，本季巴薩將虧損 77.1 M歐元（上賽季 : : 盈餘 11.1 M）。 : here are some excerpts from the Xavier Sala i Martin note from Facebook: 我們的大掌櫃(其實是財務顧問而已:P) 哥大經濟系令人尊敬的Xavier Sala-i-Martin教授表示: Rosell的經營團隊利用會計操縱盈餘(咦? 各位鄉民有沒有種很熟悉的感覺:P) : “I read that the new board has decided that the club’s 2009-10 season : was counted as the first trophy of the Rosell era, not as the last of the : Laporta era. Why? Because, says the vice president Javier Faus, titles : are not counted on just the league (as they did until now) but the day : the trophy was delivered. And as the League Cup is not until late August : will be delivered once Rosell is president, they decided (unilaterally) : that the league was earned during his presidency…. 老子聽說董事會要把09-10的title算在Rosell頭上因為要用送獎杯時間點來算好吧如果你們要這樣搞...不過講到錢........ (Rosell: 好爽撿到一座獎盃哩~~:P) : Well, that’s sad, absurd and pathetic is that the news yesterday when : he starred Javier Faus said that some auditors had rebuilt the accounts : of the club and they had “discovered” that the club had a loss of : 70 million. 你們這樣搞就真的令人傷心困惑與可悲居然講到錢你們也操弄"認列" 時間點的把戲 Faus告訴我說會計師們最近"發現"了俱樂部居然是虧錢的~~!!! (球迷: 不要告訴我這是真的!!!!) : How can that be? From +11 to -77 there is a difference of 88 million. : How can the results of a change so blatantly? … Well, for example, : saying that the sale of land is not effective on the day of the contract : of sale (as was always done until now) but the day it was recorded, or : that the bonus Mediapro gave the club as a reward for audiences obtained : during the last two years of sporting success is not an award that can be : assigned to Laporta, and will be paid during the tenure of Rosell. : Therefore, Rosell decides to appropriate them. That is, to change the : date of certain transactions that have occurred, revenue of Laporta was : passed, by magic accounting, to Rosell and many of the expenses that were : Rosell’s, were assigned to Laporta. 這甘有可能? 原來這一切都是會計把戲比如說: 1. 賣土地的收益: 從他的說法裡面可以看到 Laporta賣土地的收益是從契約簽訂當初就被算進去了但Rosell的董事會說: 不不不應該要從錢進來那天才能算錢進來的時候都會在Rosell時期(猜測) 2. Mediapro給我們的bonus: 同樣的道理給bonus我猜是用分期付款的方式支付給FCB 同樣Rosell就是要用錢進來的那天才能算這裡就有一個概念:所謂的現金基礎跟應計基礎的記帳方式現金基礎就是錢進來才能入帳這是一般大眾比較直接能夠理解的應計基礎的意思就是: 經濟事件(交易)確立發生的當下就要計入帳冊所以有買股票的FCB鄉民們應該會很熟悉會有所謂"應收"帳款的概念一般來說商業組織應該要用應計基礎會計而非用現金基礎會計然而西班牙的會計師如果給予FCB無保留意見查核報告那麼大概是俱樂部型態的財務用應計基礎也行得通(??) : four reflections. 我們從四個角度來看這個問題: : The first is that the lack Faus isn’t telling the truth when he says : that the auditors have reformulated the accounts: The auditors give : their opinion on the accounts made by the club managers. The “new” : accounts, therefore, were drafted by Javier Faus, not by any auditor. : This must be very clear. 第一: 會計師從來不會"發現"任何新的帳務狀況 (這也是給鄉民的一點點小知識) 會計師查核報告書裡面一定會有一段大意就是: 財務報表的編制是管理當局的責任而會計師只是用一般公認會計原則去審核管理當局所提出的報表是否有按照一般公認會計原則編制 (行話叫做:允當表達) 除非編制內容跟一般公認會計原則有所違背不然會計師很少主動要求改報表的那為什麼會有這麼大的差異: 因為會計準則中有很多讓人家選擇的方式每種方式都符合一般公認會計準則以上面的例子來說: 土地出售的收益要在哪個時間點算? 如果FCB的會計師接受了Faus說法可見在這裡土地出售收益的處理方式就有兩種兩種都符合西班牙的會計準則 Rosell的董事會顯然選擇對於自己較有利(相對於Laporta較不利)的那一種也就是說 Xavier這裡argue的是: 如果從本來預期會有收益被你們搞到負債那一定也是你們搞得而且是帳面上的並不是俱樂部真的出現財務危機 : The second concern is that the new board gives very the club a bad : image, destroys its international reputation and seriously damages : the interests of the club. That the economic situation is chaotic : within the club is not true, as explained in the following reflection. Xavier:"阿你們搞到這樣面子怎麼掛得住?" 就像我講的俱樂部的財務狀況並不是真的出現危機但是這樣大家就會對於俱樂部失去興趣(我猜是球員會對來FCB失去興趣怕薪水付不出來) : Third, note that the changes proposed by the new board are the date : on which income and expenses are counted. That is, Rosell and Faus : say that we count income that does not exist. … with the proposed : changes of Faus what happens is that the loss of 70 million would : be automatically compensated for in earnings of 70 million the next : year. Laporta’s board lost 70 million, and has a 70 million gain : from Rosell… Therefore, the second message is a message of peace : to all partners: the economic health of the club is superb and the : “reformulation of the accounts” no way alters that conclusion. : The only thing altered by this reformulation is who gets the medal : for good economic management Laporta, or Rosell. 同樣: 用認列時點的差異去創造出 Rosell賺錢 Laporta虧錢的社會觀感可是其實這些改善俱樂部財務的措施(例如:賣土地) 都是Laporta任內做的 Rosell只是來撿個現成的便宜罷了 : And this brings us to the fourth consideration: … as just explained, : when you say it is the worst situation … Rosell will have 70 million : profit this way, and the new board will appear as the great savior : of the economic situation when in reality it would have been a simple : magic trick of accounting. Rosell當場撿到70 million 只是會計的問題呀 (Rosell:好爽不只撿到獎杯還撿到100塊歐不是是海角七億~~~XDDD) : The second possible explanation is monetary in nature: if Rosell’s : board shows a profit of 70 million the first year, you can retrieve : all the 60 million deposited in the LFP. … The LFP requires new boards : of clubs like Barca to deposit a bank guarantee worth 15% of the cost : of the club from the previous year (as the expenses were 400 million, : Rosell had to make a guarantee of 60 million). The rule is that if the : LFP finds in the following year that the club showed profit, for example, : 15 million, the amount of the deposit will be 60-15 = 45. If next year : there is about 10 million in other profits, the guarantee will be : 45-10 = 35. And so on until you reach zero. From here, the deposit : will always be zero. 這裡講到了LFP的規定大致上說就是新主席上任需要繳一筆保證金 (計算基礎就是前期費用的15%) 但是如果經營的第一年獲利之後就可以把獲利從保證金扣掉 (比如:第一年獲利一億第一年繳的保證金是6億那麼下一年度保證金就是5億) 所以現在來算保證金是6億 (Rosell:咦?真好耶我好像剛好撿到7億那我明年不用繳保證金了 oh ya!!!) : Rosell miraculous generates revenues of 70 million the first year, and : the guarantee would be zero immediately. Thus, Rosell and his board : would save 60 million annually over the next five years. Remember : that the cost of a guarantee is around 1% of the amount so guaranteed, : so thanks to this accounting ploy Rosell saves 600,000 euros of his : own pocket … every year! This could be the real intention of the board. 這裡我不太懂所謂cost of gurantee 是指這筆gurantee的錢是用借的嗎? (1%當利息) 不過Sala i Martin認為這筆錢Rosell可以放到自己的口袋? (看來保證金是主席個人的財務要繳的不是俱樂部要繳的所以省下來的錢就是Rosell自己賺到的!!!) 但是我對於這個指控是比較保留啦 : During the election campaign, Javier Faus said it would be an honor : for him and for the new board if I would be a club ambassador in New : York. I thank him the board for their trust. As a potential ambassador, : however, allow me to ask them the following question: Is it worth : sullying the national and international image of the club just to get : some personal benefits (repeat, personal) of 600,000 euros? I have : a clear answer. The question is: Do they?” Xavier說:" 你要我當駐紐約大使可以但是你們要把這筆錢給我講清楚!!!" -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 114.42.20.170 ※ 編輯: Ivanov 來自: 114.42.20.170 (07/30 12:16) ※ 編輯: Ivanov 來自: 114.42.20.170 (07/30 12:19)