[外電] 大夢徒弟比一比

看板Lakers (洛杉磯 湖人)作者 (洛城浪子)時間14年前 (2011/08/10 22:33), 編輯推噓6(6014)
留言20則, 9人參與, 7年前最新討論串1/1
Comparing LeBron to Hakeem's graduates 大夢徒弟比一比 原文網址:http://proxy.espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post?id=9364 By Tom Haberstroh ESPN.com This summer, LeBron James worked out with Hakeem Olajuwon, master of the post and inventor of The Dream Shake (watch him paralyze David Robinson). James isn't the first player to seek the tutelage of the Hall of Famer. Since his retirement from the league, the former Rocket has tutored many NBA All-Stars looking to expand their games, including Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard. Often, the Olajuwon workout has been cited as the reason why Bryant and Howard were able to take their games on the block to the next level. 這個夏天,LeBron James和Hakeem Olajuwon這位夢幻步伐的祖師爺一起訓練。 James並不是第一個和這位名人堂成員拜師的球員,自從大夢退休以後, 這位前火箭球星已經指導了許多NBA全明星拓展他們的進攻技巧, 其中就包括Kobe Bryant還有Dwight Howard。 大夢的訓練方式已經讓Bryant和Howard在內線更加游刃有餘。 But did it really make a difference? 不過,被大夢加持過,真的能有所改觀嗎? I am usually skeptical when it comes to these things. In 2009-10, after Bryant spent a week with Olajuwon, every successful pivot or smooth up-and-under in the paint spurred a line from the color commentator about Olajuwon's influence. Same goes for Howard this past season. 當涉及到這些問題,我個人通常持懷疑的態度。 在09-10賽季,Kobe表示他花了一個星期與Olajuwon一起訓練, 每一個成功的轉身,或者在禁區內把防守球員晃起的一個漂亮的假動作, 這裡面都有Olajuwon帶來的影響,這也同樣適用於過去這個賽季的Howard。 But I know that Bryant and Howard already had post games on the block. They wouldn't be in the NBA without them. When we witnessed some crafty plays underneath in the seasons following the Hakeem workout, maybe our direct attributions to The Dream were overstated. After all, it's possible they picked up those moves from watching Kevin McHale, or seeing some old tapes of Michael Jordan ... or just from thin air. 但我們知道Kobe和Howard早已經在內線發揮出自己的技巧, 在和大夢訓練完後的那個賽季我們也見證這些精彩的假動作。 我們直接把他歸功於大夢的或許有點誇大, 這些也有可能是他們從Kevin McHale那裡學到的腳步, 或是看了一些Michael Jordan的老影片,甚至有可能是他們自創的。 So I decided to do some digging. How often did Bryant and Howard use the post-up before they went to school in Houston? How about after? Were they more efficient after the workouts? 於是我決定做一些調查。 在Kobe和Howard去休士頓拜師前使用低位進攻的頻率如何? 拜師後又是怎麼樣的情況?在這些訓練後他們是否在比賽中有著更高的效率呢? Luckily, I can get some help answering these questions with Synergy data. Synergy Sports tracks this sort of thing in their database. A couple clicks later, I produced the following chart: 幸運的是,我從Synergy data得到一些幫助和相關數據來回答這些問題。 Synergy data的資料庫對於這些個統計相當詳盡。 在一連串的滑鼠連點之後,我製作了以下圖表: The Hakeem Workout effect, by the numbers 大夢鍛鍊前後對照表 Player Season Play Pct Plays/G Plays Points Efficiency Bryant Pre-Hakeem 2008-09 14.2 4.1 340 352 1.035 Bryant Post-Hakeem 2009-10 23.8 8.1 590 624 1.058 Howard Pre-Hakeem 2009-10 67.6 14.6 1195 1144 0.957 Howard Post-Hakeem 2010-11 62.3 15.4 1198 1149 0.959 James Pre-Hakeem 2010-11 8.7 2.9 233 245 1.052 So what do we find? 所以,我們從這當中發現什麼呢? Let's start with Bryant's huge before-and-after split. In 2008-09, Bryant 14.2 percent of his overall play repertoire was used on post-up plays, or, put another way, he used 4.1 post-up plays per game. This includes post-up plays like drop-steps, turnaround jumpers, and even pass outs when the defense collapsed. On average, 1.035 points were scored per post-up play (you can find this under the "Efficiency" column). 讓我們看看關於Kobe的。 在08-09賽季,Kobe 14.2%的進攻是在低位進攻。 換句話說,他每場比賽有4.1次進攻是採用低位的進攻。 這其中包括徹步,轉身的跳投,也包括防守收縮時的傳球。 他每一次這樣的進攻平均可以得1.035分(你可以找到這個"Efficiency"向度)。 And what happened the following season? Everything went up, but mostly his usage. Whether it's a product of age slowing him down or a newfound confidence sparked by Olajuwon (or both), Bryant almost doubled his diet of post-ups in 2009-10. That's an astounding change in playing style which we rarely see in the game today. His efficiency also saw a slight uptick from 1.035 to 1.058. 在隨後的賽季發生了什麼改變呢? 一切都向著好的一面發展,但改變最大的是他的打法。 無論年齡使他減緩了步伐,或是由大夢所啟發的一種嶄新突破的信心(或是兩者兼具), Kobe的低位幾乎在09-10賽季得分幾乎直接變成雙倍。 這是一個球員在他的球風上驚人的改變,我們很少在今日的比賽中所見證。 他的效率也有了一個微幅的上升,從1.035到1.058。 And Howard? Looking at the data, his effectiveness in the post hardly changed. His numbers don't jump off the page the way that Bryant did, although it's hard to see the Orlando center spending more time in the post than he already did. With Howard, he just needed to sharpen his skills, not necessarily to use it more often. Although he improved there, the margin in efficiency is virtually negligible. Howard呢?從數據來看,他的成效乎沒有改變。 不過這位奧蘭多的中鋒本來就很難再增加更多的時間在內線上了。 魔獸只是需要提升他的技巧,但這並不代表他使用的頻率會往上攀升, 而雖然有所改進,在效率幅度的提升幾乎可以忽略不計。 Now, what does this all mean for James? Will he take Bryant's lead and incorporate a more prominent post game? Or will he venture down Howard's route by sharpening his effectiveness slightly? 現在,這些數字對James意味著什麼? 他將循著Kobe的軌跡發展並且有一個更加完善的出賽表現? 還是延續Howard的路線,雖然有所提升,但在數據上機乎可以去忽略? Tough to say. Bryant and James are wing players. With that in mind, I imagine that James will follow Bryant's lead, not Howard's. As a perimeter player, James enjoys more room to grow on the block, since he rarely spends time there. Last season, he only used 8.7 percent of his plays on post-ups, which is almost half Bryant's rate in 2008-09, pre-Hakeem. 這很難說。 Kobe和James都是外圍球員,考慮到這一點, 我想,James的進步幅度可能會接近Kobe的趨勢發展,而不是魔獸的。 作為一個外圍球員,James在內線應可以得到更大的發展空間, 因為他基本上很少花時間在那裡。 上個賽季,他只有了8.7%的進攻選擇去背框單打, 這幾乎只有Kobe在08-09賽季去和大夢訓練前的一半。 Another thing to note: James does have a post game. In fact, his efficiency on the block is already on par with Bryant's average on a per-play basis. A few months ago, Couper Moorhead of Heat.com wrote a fantastic breakdown of James' post-up development, but has since been removed by the lockout-induced carwash on team websites. (You can still read my Heat Index post that expanded on his work). 另一件值得注意的事是:LBJ還是有低位進攻的。 事實上,他在per-play效率甚至和Kobe per-play的平均效率差不了多少。 在數個月前,Couper Moorhead of Heat.com寫了一篇關於James在低位的發展和崩潰, 全文相當精彩,不過後來似乎被某些大德從球隊的網站上移除了。 (不過你還是可以看我po,後來被他發揚光大的的Heat Index。) But the main difference between Bryant and James is tha聴 Bryant embraces his post game, while James treats it as a cameo. Sure, it's nice to be efficient, but it won't move the needle if it only comes out once or twice a game. James has yet to develop the same style and grace that we associate with Bryant and Olajuwon, but he's still a monster when it comes to efficiency. 但Kobe和James之間的主要區別在於: Kobe注重他的賽後表現,並且會積極的訓練以在各個層面提昇自己,而James卻不盡然。 可以肯定,訓練是一定會有效果的,但是在一場或兩場比賽的範疇不會產生明顯的影響, James有待增進他的內線進攻威脅,儘管現今我們只將Kobe和Olajuwon聯結起來, 但James只要在此層面變得更加高效率,他仍然會蛻變成比現在更無法阻擋的怪物。 As raw and unpolished as James may be on the block, his starting point is already vastly superior to most players in the league. Should Olajuwon raise James' comfort factor, who knows what kind of impact it can have on the Heat forward's game. If James absorbs Olajuwon's teachings like Bryant did, there won't be much left for everyone to criticize. 由於James在天生的一些素質,他的起始點已經大大優於大多數在聯盟中的球員, 大夢所要教的應該並不多,誰知道這對這位熱火隊的前鋒會產生什麼樣的影響呢? 如果LBJ的進步幅度就像Kobe請教完大夢後提升的那樣, 那他在場上的表現受到大家非議的部分就更少了。 But that's a big 'if.' 不過現在我們只能打一個大大的問號先。 -- 洛城 ███◣ 浪子 Los Angeles Boys ◢██◣ █ █ ◥█ φlin798183 ██ ██◤ █ ██◤ █◤◢█ █◣ ◢ ██◤ ◥ ◤ █ █ ◤ ◥█ ███◣ ███◤ ◢██ ◥██ ◢█◤ -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 114.37.2.179 ※ 編輯: LABOYS 來自: 114.37.2.179 (08/10 22:39)

08/10 22:39, , 1F
看好會有提升~那個可以進步的空間實在是蠻大的...
08/10 22:39, 1F

08/10 22:48, , 2F
LBJ目前的低位比較像是有請教Bosh的打法,背框要位然後翻身
08/10 22:48, 2F

08/10 22:49, , 3F
跳投,低位下球或轉身切入的動作比較少見
08/10 22:49, 3F

08/10 22:51, , 4F
Bynum也去學一學吧
08/10 22:51, 4F

08/10 22:52, , 5F
DH數據沒啥差,不過可以看出他進攻招式變多射程也拉長
08/10 22:52, 5F

08/10 22:54, , 6F
進攻比率多了一倍 效率卻沒掉甚至還提升一點點
08/10 22:54, 6F

08/10 22:54, , 7F
差別超大 就像200/500的命中率跟 400/1000的命中率
08/10 22:54, 7F

08/10 22:55, , 8F
效率上一樣 但球風就如文中所寫有極大的差異
08/10 22:55, 8F

08/10 23:08, , 9F
Bynum多給他球打就好了 讓他找回他的進攻他手段已經不少了
08/10 23:08, 9F

08/10 23:43, , 10F
KB真的是學以致用!
08/10 23:43, 10F

08/11 12:50, , 11F
魔獸本來就打禁區的 所以跟歐拉學習過後 應該主要是差在
08/11 12:50, 11F

08/11 12:50, , 12F
進攻手段和技巧的進步吧
08/11 12:50, 12F

08/11 12:50, , 13F
某些低位或禁區相關的數據 帳面上可能看不大出來變化
08/11 12:50, 13F

08/13 16:28, , 14F
因為原本的打法 就已經能衝到這麼高的數據了
08/13 16:28, 14F

08/15 21:50, , 15F
08/15 21:50, 15F

08/15 21:50, , 16F
烙印在我腦海裡 我覺得這是KOBE POST MOVE的代表作..
08/15 21:50, 16F

08/15 21:50, , 17F
之前一直找不到YOUTUBE的影片 乾脆自己剪...
08/15 21:50, 17F

08/08 14:02, , 18F
差別超大 就像200/ https://noxiv.com
08/08 14:02, 18F

09/11 05:36, , 19F
差別超大 就像200/ https://daxiv.com
09/11 05:36, 19F

12/11 20:22, 7年前 , 20F
Bynum多給他球打就 https://noxiv.com
12/11 20:22, 20F
文章代碼(AID): #1EGfQZYY (Lakers)
文章代碼(AID): #1EGfQZYY (Lakers)