Omar Vizquel and the Hall of Fame

看板MLB (美國職棒/大聯盟)作者abc12812時間13年前 (2012/09/25 22:17)推噓9(9推 0噓 6→)

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http://tinyurl.com/9xapeet You can read the whole post and reader comments here. That idea leads me to Omar Vizquel, who is winding down the final days of his 24-year career. It's actually fairly easy to construct a Hall of Fame framework for Vizquel: Any position player with at least 10 Gold Gloves is clearly one of the greatest fielders of all time and merits a Hall of Fame selection purely on his fielding ability. The list of those with at least 10 Gold Gloves: Brooks Robinson, 16 Ozzie Smith, 13 Ivan Rodriguez, 13 Roberto Clemente, 12 Willie Mays, 12 Omar Vizquel, 11 Keith Hernandez, 11 Johnny Bench, 10 Mike Schmidt, 10 Ken Griffey Jr., 10 Al Kaline, 10 Andruw Jones, 10 Ichiro Suzuki, 10 Most of those guys are already in the Hall of Fame or will eventually get elected. OK, you'd have to include Keith Hernandez (who peaked at 10.8 percent of the vote but was a fine player and MVP winner) and Andruw Jones (Willie Mays-like in center field and has more than 400 home runs). So that wouldn't be so bad. We have to include the "10 Gold Gloves" corollary, because you once you get below that you start getting to names like Don Mattingly and Torii Hunter (nine Gold Gloves) or George Scott, Mark Belanger and Frank White (eight apiece), players who don't really fit a Hall of Fame profile. Omar Vizquel該入選名人堂嗎? 來看看歷史上贏過十次以上金手套得主幾乎都入選了只有幾位特例 (Keith Hernandez/Andruw Jones) Of course, Vizquel's Hall of Fame currency doesn't solely reside on his defense. You could add a few other things: 1. Played more games at shortstop than any other player. 2. Ranks 41st on the all-time hits list (2,874) and 78th all time in runs scored (1,444). 3. Key member of six division winners with Cleveland. 4. .272 career hitter with more than 400 stolen bases, so not a complete zero on offense. There are probably a few other things you could add on his ledger, but those are the big ones. 當然 Vizquel還有其他加分點: 1) 守游擊的場次比任何人都多 2) 2874安1444得分 3) 印地安人全盛期的基石 4) 打擊率.272 400盜表示他有些攻擊力 When Vizquel joins the ballot in a few years, his candidacy -- like the one with Morris -- will spark an intense debate, divided among old-school purists and new-school statheads. When it comes to career Wins Above Replacement, Vizquel does not fare particulary well: His 40.6 Baseball-Reference WAR, while higher than some of the more marginal Hall of Famers, is well-below the general threshold of most Hall of Famers. 然而從WAR的角度看 Vizquel的成就卻比一般名人堂要低很多 Complicating the debate is that many will hold up Vizquel as a beacon of the steroids era, a little guy who played the game the right way in an era of muscled-up sluggers. Vizquel will also be hailed as the National League version of Ozzie Smith, down to the singular first name. The latter debate is a difficult one to make when you look at WAR: Ozzie: 73.0 Omar: 40.6 和另一位游擊金手套Ozzie Smith相比 Vizquel輸了一大截 Compared to his contemporaries at shortstop, Ozzie was a little more productive at the plate: 44.5 offensive Wins Above Replacement compared to Vizquel's 27.8. Compared to an average hitter of his time, Smith was 119 runs below average over his career while Vizquel was 243 runs below average. Of course, this gets back to the steroid era argument. Vizquel is being evaluated against all those big hitters (and players at his position that included Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Nomar Garciaparra and Miguel Tejada), while Ozzie gets Garry Templeton and Shawon Dunston. Ozzie的打擊稍好 Still, this brings the argument back to Vizquel's fielding. How good was he? Baseball-Reference does rate him as a superb fielder, 29th among all players since 1947 in runs saved and fifth among shortstops (behind Belanger, Ozzie, Cal Ripken and Luis Aparacio). Belanger (240 runs saved) and Ozzie (239 runs saved) rank second and third overall behind Brooks Robinson. You may not like advanced fielding metrics, but it's hard to argue with the rest of Baseball-Reference's top-10 list: Jones, Clemente, Adrian Beltre, Carl Yastrzemski, Mays, Ripken and Barry Bonds. Maybe you don't recognize Belanger's name, but he was the shortstop for the Orioles during the Earl Weaver dynasty years, a tall, think shortstop with great range but even less of a bat than Ozzie or Omar. He won those eight Gold Gloves despite a .228 career average, so was certainly recognized as a great fielder during his time. 防守呢? BR給的評價相當高高居史上第五 Even if you believe the metrics underrate Vizquel a bit, is there enough there? Even at his peak, he was the fifth-best shortstop in the American League. He received MVP votes just once in his career (16th in 1999), which isn't a reason to dismiss him entirely, but doesn't equate with a player viewed in his own time as one of the best in the league (Ozzie once finished second in the MVP vote). 這樣夠嗎? 在他全盛期只能算是美聯第五游擊只拿過一次MVP選票這恐怕很難讓人感覺他是聯盟最好的球員之一 (Ozzie MVP票選拿過第二) Vizquel's longevity, while unique, doesn't increase his value; he just managed to hang a long time. Since turning 40, he's scratched out 400 more hits while batting just .250/.305/.310. Many voters will cite his career hits total, but that ignores that he hung on for six seasons as basically a replacement-level player. 雖然Vizquel很持久但這卻加分不大在40歲後以.250/.305/.310低迷的打擊硬擠出 400安很多票選者提到安打總數卻忘了他有六季都只是替代球員等級 Two more issues to raise. Personally, I would find it hard to see Vizquel as a Hall of Famer while Alan Trammell (67.1 career WAR) remains unelected. Any easy rule for any Hall of Fame debate: Is he the best player at his position not in the Hall of Fame? But Trammell doesn't have that one signature element to his career like Omar ("Best shortstop other than Ozzie!") and besides he'll be off the ballot in four years. Finally, there are players like Jones and Hunter, who nobody seems to really consider as Hall of Fame-caliber even though they were regarded as terrific fielders (remember, Hunter has won nine Gold Gloves) and contributed more at the plate than Vizquel, even for their positions. What makes Vizquel a better candidate than them? 就算拿很多金手套也未必會被認為是名人堂的料像是Jones/Hunter 而這兩人的火力輸出即使考慮進守位校正都勝過Vizquel Vizquel會是比他們更好的名人堂人選嗎? You can probably see where my opinion sits. It's been an amazing career, no doubt; as someone who watched him when he first came up with Seattle, I can guarantee you that there wasn't one Mariners fan who believed Little O would someday turn into a Hall of Fame candidate. I actually think he will get elected after a few years on the ballot. Maybe Jack Morris will be sitting behind at the induction ceremony. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 140.112.25.133