Interview with Frank Shamrock-Part One
I had the pleasure of chatting with Frank Shamrock a few days ago and when the interview was done, I had even more respect for Frank. Arguably one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, fighters to step foot in the Octagon, let alone mixed martial arts in and of itself, I got to the bottom of more than a few rumors that have been floating around in various MMA news circles. During our conversation we talked about a return to the UFC, his past personal quarrels with big brother Ken, serial killers, Tito
Ortiz and why exactly he stepped away from the MMA spotlight.
Mike Sloan: Hey Frank, what's up? I have about 50 questions for you. Is that too many?
Frank Shamrock: (laughing) No that's alright. No, it's always 50 questions, don't you know? (laughs) Don't even worry about it. I do this all the time. I'm pretty good at it, actually.
Mike Sloan: So what have you been doing lately?
Frank Shamrock: Well, I'm working out a little bit. I've been working a lot, eating a lot. That's about it (laughs).
Mike Sloan: Do you still train hard even though you haven't been fighting?
Frank Shamrock: Yeah, I train every day. I always train every day. That's kind of what I do. I don't have the 4 hours to put in every day like I used to. Now I get the 20 minutes to an hour, hour and a half sessions. I still get those in about 3 or 4 days a week.
Mike Sloan: You fought in last year's K-1. Will you participate in this year's K-1?
Frank Shamrock: Nah. That stuff hurt. It was far too painful.
Mike Sloan: But your fight only lasted about a minute and a half.
Frank Shamrock: Yeah, but it's the training for it. You know, it's always the training. It's never the fight, it's always the training. I really wanted to do it and I have always wanted to be a professional boxer and kickboxer, but it was real damaging. I got all beat up from all the kicks and knees. You're just standing there throwing your bones at each other and trying to hurt each other. I found that in kickboxing, I got a lot more damaged than in grappling.
Mike Sloan: How did that happen, with you going into the K-1?
Frank Shamrock: They (K-1) asked me. Well, we were doing business together at the time. Then they asked me if I wanted to fight and I said, "Yes." Then they asked if I'd rather do kick boxing in Vegas or no holds barred in Japan. I was like, "Oh, I'd rather kickbox in Vegas," plus I was real excited about kickboxing, so it worked out good.
Mike Sloan: Wasn't your first appearance in the K-1 against Elvis Sinosic an NHB-ruled bout, though?
Frank Shamrock: Um, that is, that's true. I did fight for the first time in the K-1 like that. That's where we developed our relationship and I started working with the K-1 guys. But it wasn't under the K-1 rules; it was under the new no holds barred K-1 rules. We grappled and did all kinds of other stuff besides just the kickboxing. The K-1 that I fought in, in Vegas, was just professional kickboxing. It was a big difference.
Mike Sloan: How difficult of a transition was it to change from training in mixed martial arts to just strictly kickboxing?
Frank Shamrock: It was difficult, but I didn't forget about it while I was in the ring. I didn't think about doing anything different, it just didn't feel as comfortable because I know so many ways to counter what's going on. I was like, "Why am I being kicked?!" because I know how to counter. I was like, "I don't want that to happen!" but you have to stand there and follow the rules, so it makes it a little different. I enjoyed testing the rules and participating in it because it's a challenge doing
that.
Mike Sloan: There are a lot of rumors floating around that you are making a comeback to the UFC or some other MMA event. How true are these rumors?
Frank Shamrock: Well, I'm trying (laughs), so they're pretty true. I moved back to San Jose from LA to go back to camp and start training to fight. I haven't fought since then so I did the kickboxing. That's the last thing I did. But the market's kind of changed; it's a little different. There's really no one I care to fight. There's nothing bigger and more exciting going on, so I'm just hanging out and training and working on my businesses. For me, I'm a martial artist. I look at it as a professional
martial artist athlete. I go there and do my job and that's it, then I go home. (Laughs) Put ice on my elbows. I'm a regular guy.
Frank Shamrock finishes Tito Ortiz
Mike Sloan: Saying you do return, are you willing to battle it out with Tito Ortiz again? That was, in my opinion, the best fight I've ever seen in UFC history.
Frank Shamrock: Yeah, that was a good one. It was a good one. I don't mind mixing it up with Tito again. He's kind of big. He might fall on me and hurt me. But at this point, fighting Tito is like reading the same book again, but if there's big money in it, I'll do it. But for the most part, I've already done that. That one's done so hopefully I can move on to something bigger and better. That's the way I hope it works for me.
Mike Sloan: Does it make you want to return to the UFC a little bit more because Tito is the man right now? When you left, you were the man and you already beat Tito.
Frank Shamrock: No. I still feel like the man (laughs) so I don't worry too much about it. It's fun to go and watch and hang out. I had my fighter, Kelly, in there who fought, but I've been to 20 UFCs. It's different now.
Mike Sloan: Are there any guys in any organizations that you would like to fight?
Frank Shamrock: Well, I like Sakuraba. I've been trying to get Sakuraba to fight me for about 2 years.
Mike Sloan: That'd be a good fight right there.
Frank Shamrock: Yeah. I've always wanted to fight Sakuraba because he's a guy who I always thought could beat me with my own techniques. And that really exhilarated me into training and I actually started preparing for that fight on two separate occasions, but they never happened. That's a guy I'd like to fight. I'd like to fight Vanderlei Silva because he's kind of scary.
Mike Sloan: Yeah, he's wild.
Frank Shamrock: He's scary looking. I'd like to fight him because he's scary and if he whacked you, he'd kill you. That would be a big incentive and really exhilarating to start training and to try it.
Mike Sloan: And besides, he's beaten Sakuraba twice.
Frank Shamrock: And in convincing fashion both times.
Mike Sloan: What is your take on the UFC these days, with Zuffa taking over and changing the rules?
Frank Shamrock: I think it's good. I mean, it's a step in the right direction. Everyone's trying to legitimize the sport and I think they're doing the best job they can. They've done great things. They're back on cable, the sport's pumping, you know.
Mike Sloan: You haven't fought in the UFC since Zuffa took over and you said in an interview in FightSport Magazine that you like the soccer kick. What other rules would you like to see come back or be altered in the UFC, or other organizations for that matter?
Frank Shamrock: (Laughs loudly) That's funny! It's true, though. But I look at it from a different standpoint. When I'm looking at combat, I think to do the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time possible, utilizing maximum potential of your body, that's really the goal in my job. I just see some techniques that it would be so much easier if the guy was just passive like that, whatever, just kick him in the head, knee him in the neck, knee him in the kidney (laughs), you know, DO damage. I
understand the necessity for the rules and the presentation of all these things, but I also understand from a combat point, from training police or military, that sometimes you just gotta take people out. There are just some very efficient ways and some of them are not clean and they're not pretty, but they work. The soccer kick is one of them. The gut stomp, the head stomp, these are just some of the things that go on in combat, but perhaps don't go on in sports, if you know what I mean. I'm in support
of the shortest, quickest way possible of handling business, but you have to tailor that to whatever you're doing.
Mike Sloan: What happened in there with Kelly Dullanty against Matt Serra? How frustrating was it to see your guy lose like that?
Frank Shamrock: I don't know. I wasn't that frustrated. (laughs) I don't know. It was a learning experience for Kelly. He's a phenomenal athlete with phenomenal talent, but he doesn't train. He's one of those guys who skates by on athletic ability. He beat Duane Ludwig and he trained for like six days. I haven't seen him for like five months. So he has some issues that keep him from training and if he addressed those and trained all the time, he would be a phenomenal athlete. But he's lacking in certain
areas. I think it was a great learning experience for him. I had a great time in Vegas and I got to go watch Kelly fight. See, to me it doesn't matter if they win or lose. It matters, to me, what lesson they learned. If they didn't learn anything, I mean they've got smart guys in their corner (laughs), because this is a life's lesson at the highest level. You're answering questions about yourself and who you are and what you're doing, and there should be a proper presentation. If you're going to go
there, then you should show up and show your all. He realized that wasn't his all and that he could do more and do better. I appreciate that and I loved the show. I thought Josh winning the heavyweight title was huge. I'm glad I didn't bet (laughs).
Frank Shamrock submits Jeremy Horn
Mike Sloan: Yeah. I actually picked Couture to win that one.
Frank Shamrock: Well, I knew, mechanically, that Josh could beat him. It just wasn't conceivable because of the past record of Couture. If I was gonna bet money, I would have bet it over there. I ended up not doing it because I had the job over there. It was a good show, though. I enjoyed it.
Mike Sloan: It was. It was even better because we were all sitting together down there.
Frank Shamrock: Yeah. It was good and I was able to enjoy it. I wasn't trampled or bugged too much. I was kind of incognito and, for me, that's a very rare experience that I could go there and watch it. Because, you know, everybody wants to come over and talk and, you know, hang out with Frank Shamrock and see what's going on. While that's cool and all, I rarely get the chance to sit down and watch the show. So, for me, that was cool.
Mike Sloan: Besides Kelly, who else do you train?
Frank Shamrock: I train Bob Cook, Josh Thompson and I train Eric Deuce. Well, I would like to say that I actually train these people, but Bob Cook actually trains them all and Javier Mendez oversees their training. I go in there three days a week and try and beat them all up.
Mike Sloan: Nice.
Frank Shamrock: (Laughs loudly) Yeah, I'm like the little rattlesnake. They call me the rattlesnake because they all go in there and do their training and, you know, I work. I do whatever I have to do, like doing my appearances and run around, then I like to sneak in and train a little bit. I'm like the nemesis, so they always try and get me.
Mike Sloan: How often do you beat them all, every time?
Frank Shamrock: No. I have devised ways of handling everybody so they don't hurt me. I don't win every time, but I'm always efficient, always safe and always doing more damage than receiving.
Mike Sloan: Well, that's the way it has to work.
Frank Shamrock: Yeah (laughs). That way, I have longevity.
Mike Sloan: Okay, you've been saying forever that the Gracies are dead. Can you-
Frank Shamrock: (Interrupting with loud laughter) Can I say something on that comment?
Mike Sloan: Sure, go ahead.
Rickson Gracie
Frank Shamrock: I just said that because I was talking, and I can't even remember the context of the conversation or whatever we were talking about, but it was quite some time ago. I remember saying the sentence and recalling that it was going to have lasting effects, but I meant that in the arena that everybody is competing in currently. In the UFC, the modern UFC fan today, to them, the Gracies are dead. They don't understand. They'll be like, "Oh you mean that guy from whatever?" They're a different
era. They're the next generation of fans, viewers and participants and that's what I meant by that. If you talk to the first martial arts fan who watched UFC #1, he is a Gracie fanatic. He completely understands. If you watch the new fans who've jumped on at UFC 20, he is a Mark Coleman, submission fighting, wrestling, Tito Ortiz fan. It's a new fan and I meant that to those people, the Gracies are dead. They don't get it. They're like, "…what?" To the martial artists of the world, the Gracies are
still the kings of that sport, of that area because those are the people that they touched first. Martial artists are loyal and, you know, they've been down.
Mike Sloan: Well that explains it now.
Frank Shamrock: Yeah, but in modern combat, in this arena in the UFC, the Gracies are dead. Like Pride, the technique, the approach, the style, the discipline, everything has moved to the next level. It just has evolved. And you either evolve with it or move to the next level behind it.
Mike Sloan: If you could take on one Gracie, which one would you take on?
Frank Shamrock: Um…I don't really have a preference. (some thinking) I doesn't really matter to me. I guess I would like Rickson. Rickson's probably the biggest or most popular. I would fight the guy who would bring me the most money at the gate. They're all pretty much basically the same style, just different ages and variances. Truthfully, it's the style and that's why I think fighting Sakuraba would be so fun; he's the same style. If I threw out three combinations, he would know it and be able to
move and counter. That's a big thing. That's like a lightweight boxer throwing an 8-punch combination. That's just exciting to watch. But I think that system's (Gracie system) an older system. I think modern systems can combat those. But I would love to fight the Gracies or any of those jiu jitsu stylist guys.
Mike Sloan: Many people, myself included, felt that you left the UFC and the sport too early. Did you leave because of your shoulder injury or for other reasons?
Frank Shamrock: Um… I don't know if I ever…I guess I left, but I didn't really go anywhere. I retired because it was a thing I did, legally, to get out of one of my contracts (laughs). All I really wanted to fight was Tito. They're all like, "Oh, you've got to fight a 5-fight contract" or something. They wanted all these fights, but all I really wanted to fight was Tito. All I really wanted to do was fight Tito because he was the guy who excited me about it. But other than that, you know, whoever
(laughs). So I got the fight, made the fight, then made my public retirement speech, gave back my title and stepped out of the UFC because I didn't want to do what they wanted me to do. I wanted to fight Tito, then do whatever was next, whether it be kickboxing or something. I don't know. For me, the fighting thing was really strange because all of a sudden I got really good at it by default. One day I was training and doing my thing and competing and I really didn't take it seriously. I started
training a bunch of people then I fought John Lober. Then I made a conscious decision to put 100% of my energy into the sport and be a professional athlete. At that time, I loved what I was doing. It was like, "Okay, I'm really good now. I'll just apply it," and I did. I studied everything and worked on everything and applied everything. My run was a result.
Mike Sloan: Prior to your retiring out of the UFC, you lost seven times. You avenged most of those losses, but how come there was never a rematch with Yuki Kondo, Kiuma Kinioku or even a rematch for the draw you had with Alan Goes?
Allan Goes
Frank Shamrock: I did have a chance to fight Alan Goes one time, but he was like 20 pounds heavier than I was at the time. I was like, "Ah, that's probably not a good idea." But I was never into the whole avenging and rematch thing because I kind of had different approaches as to what was going on in the fight. I never really concerned myself with the fighter I was fighting. I was really stressed about his style, so I kind of looked at people and fighters as styles because styles gave me trouble. The
people didn't give me trouble. I never had that thing where I was like, "Oh, I want to beat that guy!" I was never like, "Oh, he's beaten me! He's got something on me now!" Although when I fought Lober again and I was training for that, about a week before the fight, I kind of had that weird, 'Oh he beat me. Maybe he's got this weird power over me' thing. Other than that, I never really had that desire or need to go back. I genuinely like most of the people who are competing in the sport. The people who
do the sport are nice guys and the fact that we're beating the crap out of each other usually brings us closer. At the end, we're like, "Dude, you almost broke my arm! It was terrible!" But somehow it bonds you to these people at the same time. Male bonding or whatever it is. So I don't have hard feelings towards these people. If Tito would have kicked my ass, I would've been like, "Dude, you KICKED my ass! I can't believe that!" because I would have never conceived that happening. But should it have
happened, it would have happened and that's just the way it is. I would have moved on. I still think him and I would have become friends anyway. I never had that thing where I had to fight that guy again. (laughs). Who knows? I fought one of my friends before. I fought Vernon White and it was just retarded. But when I was in there, I was like, "Okay, I know what Vernon can do. I've gotta take care of his style."
Mike Sloan: I've interviewed Tito before and I talk to him whenever I see him at fights. I've asked him about you a few times, about there not being a rematch. He's like, "You should ask Frank that." Now I'm not saying he doesn't like you or anything like that, but there just seems to be a bit of animosity because of the loss and there wasn't ever a rematch.
Frank Shamrock: Well…yeah. Obviously he's…He's looking for closure. Well, you know, that's his thing. I'm okay with it (laughs).
Mike Sloan: Have you ever fought anybody that you personally just did not like?
Frank Shamrock: Let's see. I got some…Well, no…Yes…Um…No…(some pondering) When I fought…That's a snafu question. I've never been angry at anyone with any fight I've had professionally, except for when I fought John Lober.
Mike Sloan: The second time?
Frank Shamrock: Yes, the second time. He was sending me dirty emails, calling my room and being obnoxious (laughs). And for some reason, as soon as the fight started, I was going to kill this guy and I just knew it. Then I was just torturing him because I was mad at him. But afterwards, he came up to me and apologized and we talked about it. It was another male bonding thing (laughs). I felt terrible about doing that because it wasn't professional. When I did that, it was jacked, you know? But it was
fighting, still, and that's how I look at it. But then we talked afterwards and I was like, "God damn. I'm sorry." Then he was like, "That's what I did to get myself up," and I was sorry.
Mike Sloan: But hey, you gotta do what you gotta do, you know?
Frank Shamrock: Exactly. It's business. Then afterwards, you should be nice to each other during that business process because afterwards you may hang out. You can talk shit and do whatever you need to do to get yourself by and sell your image or whatever, but at the end of the day, you've gotta live with yourself.
Mike Sloan: Even though I've never seen it, the highlight of your career HAD to have been the Burger King commercial.
Frank Shamrock: (Bursts into loud laughter) I've never seen it either!
Mike Sloan: You've never seen it?
Frank Shamrock knees John Lober
Frank Shamrock: No…
Mike Sloan: So how did that come about?
Frank Shamrock: Well, I moved to LA. When I do things, I do them full force, 100%. So when I moved to LA, I was going to do acting for two years. I got into a school of acting, started doing some commercial work and all these things and I landed a Burger King commercial. I actually landed an Old Spice commercial and I was going to be their main guy in their first national campaign in years. I just signed the UFC commentary thing the day before, and those guys were like, "Oh, can you put that off a day?"
I didn't know how much money those things make. They make great money!
Mike Sloan: Do they?
Frank Shamrock: Yeah! Commercials and stuff like that because they keep playing. They're residual. I guess mine went really well. I don't know if it was highlight, though. I don't know. Highlights, for me, are like things in the gym where I discover things.
Mike Sloan: What was the commercial about? Were you in the restaurant ordering food or did you work at the register?
Frank Shamrock: No, I was kicking on the bag. I was kicking on the bag and looking quite menacing like I had just eaten some yummy burgers and was beating up stuff.
Mike Sloan: (Laughs) Oh god…
Frank Shamrock: (Laughs) No, they were doing like a 'BK for You.' It was an urban athletic approach to Burger King. They had a guy playing ball and showing clips of people's lives and doing things. They had me in there beating on the bag and showed me punching and stuff, looking quite menacing. It was fun, though. It was easy. I went down there and I worked for like 45 minutes on tape. They put powder on my gloves and sprayed stuff on me and then it was done.
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凱因斯說過:
"什麼事情老是有人說長期來看 好 那麼長期來看 我們都死了"
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