[外電] Edgar Martinez and the Hall of Fame

看板Mariners作者pinpon (媽~我會飛耶~)時間15年前 (2010/09/15 01:13)推噓8(8推 0噓 1→)

留言9則, 8人參與討論串1/1

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8212 2004年退休的Edgar，今年首度獲得名人堂提名資格在BBWAA的投票中獲得了36.2%的票數雖然無法進入名人堂，但至少保有繼續挑戰的資格關於Edgar究竟能不能進入名人堂，有著許多的爭論這篇文章討論支持與反對Edgar進名人堂的論點以下是簡單翻譯，有誤請指正 POLL: Edgar Martinez and the Hall of Fame Posted by Andy on September 14, 2010 Edgar Martinez was signed by the Seattle Mariners as an amateur free agent in 1982 and played in 18 seasons in the majors with the team. Although he started off as a third baseman, by 1993 Martinez appeared more often as a DH and starting in 1995 was a full-time DH for the next 10 seasons. Edgar在1982年被水兵簽下，一開始以三壘手出賽，1993年大多以DH上場，1995年起便以專職DH的身份打完接下來10季的比賽。 Martinez won 2 batting titles, led the league in OBP 3 times, and was a 7-time All-Star. He finished with a .418 career OBP, good for 22nd all-time. 'Gar also led the league in doubles twice, RBI once, and even runs scored once. Edgar拿過2次打擊王，3次上壘率王，7次入選全明星賽。他的生涯上壘率高達.418，在史上排名第22。此外他還拿過2次2B王，1次打點王，及1次得分王。 There are two big knocks against Martinez--he was as slow as molasses and rarely played the field. I'm not sure we can blame Martinez for being a DH, but the fact that he wasn't good enough to contribute in the field has to count against him somewhat from a flexibility perspective. 在Edgar進入名人堂的路上有兩塊大石頭--他跑得實在有夠慢，而且他很少在場上守備。 Click through and let's discuss his HOF credentials. 讓我們討論有關Edgar的名人堂資格吧。 For Edgar Martinez in the Hall of Fame: 支持Edgar入選名人堂的理由: ．As mentioned above, Martinez has currently 22nd in career OBP. This outs him just behind Mickey Mantle and Frank Thomas and just ahead of Stan Musial and Wade Boggs. Martinez often doesn't get mentioned when the game's best hitters are listed, but make no mistake about it...this guy is way, way up there. Edgar的生涯上壘率是史上第22，僅次於Mickey Mantle與重傷害。雖然人們在討論最佳打者時常會忽略Edgar，但毫無疑問的，他是個很棒的打者。．He even cracks the top 100 in batting average, a list dominated by long-deceased players. He's also 70th in slugging percentage and 35th in OPS. Even his OPS+ is 43rd. So this guy was not a product of the high-offense era he played in. His offensive numbers come out as fantastic no matter how you look at them. 在幾乎都被上古神獸佔據的史上打擊率前百名單上，Edgar居然能在裡面擁有一席之地。 Edgar同時在SLG排行史上第70，而OPS則排行第35，連OPS+都能排第43。因此這傢伙並非只是強打年代的產物，而是貨真價實的強力打者。．Martinez's career WAR is 67.2, which is 69th among position players. However, keep in mind that he rarely played the field. Had he been drafted by an NL team and forced to play 3B (probably switching to 1B pretty quickly) he might have racked up a big negative fielding runs total. Price Fielder springs to mind as a possible comparison, and he's already got -40 fielding runs. That means that perhaps Martinez could have had -100 fielding runs for his career, which would have dropped his RAR from 688 to 588 and dropped his WAR ranking down to something more like 105th all-time. I'm not saying we necessarily need to apply this penalty to Martinez, but we at least need to recognize that the defensive part of his game was very limited, which gave the Mariners less roster flexibility than they might have otherwise had. Edgar的生涯WAR是67.2，在同位置選手中排行第69。但注意一點--Edgar很少上場守備。假如他被國聯的球隊選到，也許他會被要求守3B，也許很快就換到1B，因而得到滿大的守備負分。若與小王子比較，小王子目前已經累積-40的守備分數，這表示若Edgar下場守備，也許會拿到-100的生涯守備分數，這將讓他的RAR掉到588，且讓他的WAR掉到史上第105名。當然我們不能因此而扣掉他的分數，但我們至少必須記得他在守備上的貢獻相當有限。．Martinez crushed the ball in 4 ALDS series to the tune of 7 HR and 20 RBI in 17 games. Edgar在4次ALDS中的表現只能用鬼神形容--17場比賽擊出7HR，20RBI。．Highest OPS+, 1990-present, minimum 5000 plate appearances: Rk Player OPS+ PA From To 1 Barry Bonds 195 10218 1990 2007 2 Albert Pujols 171 6703 2001 2010 3 Mark McGwire 170 5739 1990 2001 4 Frank Thomas 156 10074 1990 2008 5 Manny Ramirez 155 9710 1993 2010 6 Jeff Bagwell 149 9431 1991 2005 7 Edgar Martinez 149 8392 1990 2004 8 Jim Thome 147 9769 1991 2010 9 Alex Rodriguez 146 10120 1994 2010 10 Albert Belle 146 6439 1990 2000 Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used Generated 9/13/2010. 在1990年後，5000PA以上的球員中，Edgar的OPS+排名第7。．44.1 career Win Probability Added (44th all-time) Edgar的生涯WPA在史上排行第44。 Against Edgar Martinez in the Hall of Fame: 反對Edgar入選的理由: ．As mentioned, Martinez was a really slow baserunner. From his baserunning stats, we see that he took the extra base just 33%. From 1990 to 2004, the AL average was 43%. (I figured that out by collecting numbers from pages like this.) This explains in part why he had such a high OBP but averaged "only" 96 runs scored per 162 games. (I am nitpicking a bit here...) Among guys with a similar OBP, Boggs averaged 100 runs per 162 games, Greenberg 122, Ott 110, and Musial 104. Martinez's total is really quite low, especially considered that he played during a high-offense period, although the fact that he hit 4th and 5th a lot (and wasn't followed by the best hitters, necessarily) may have a lot to do with this as well. 如同前面提到的，Edgar跑得實在太慢了。他的extra base只有33%，在1990-2004這段期間的美聯extra base平均則是43%。這解釋了為什麼他的OBP這麼高，但平均每162場比賽他只能得96分。與他有類似OBP的選手，得分都比他多。Edgar得分實在太少了，雖然這可能跟他大多打四五棒，而後面又缺乏能送他回家的打者有關。．Martinez got a lot of MVP votes in one year (1995, finished 3rd) and a smattering in other seasons. He deserved the MVP in 1995 but apparently didn't get much respect around the league. Edgar在1995的MVP競爭中拿到第三，其他年代則都拿到分散的票數。他在1995年的成績的確夠資格拿MVP，但他沒拿到，顯示當時大家並不夠喜歡他。．As well as he hit in the ALDS, he hit poorly in the ALCS. In those 17 games he managed just 1 HR and 4 RBI with a .156 BA. Martinez helped put the Mariners franchise on the map with winning seasons and playoff appearances, but is also partly responsible for them not yet making the World Series. 他在ALDS打得很好沒錯，但在ALCS卻打得有夠爛--17場出賽只擊出1HR，4RBI，打擊率只有.156。Edgar幫助水兵在季賽獲勝並贏得季後賽資格，卻無法幫助水兵拿到世界大賽的門票。．His most similar players: Will Clark (902) Todd Helton (888) John Olerud (885) Moises Alou (879) Bobby Abreu (862) Bernie Williams (860) Bob Johnson (857) Paul O'Neill (852) Ellis Burks (850) Orlando Cepeda (840) * 與他相似的打者中只有Cepeda進入名人堂．Did I mention he was primarily a DH? 我提過他是個DH了吧? -- Zu jeder Zeit, an jeder Ort bleibt das Tun der Menschen das gleiche. --Legend of the Galactic Heroes -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 219.71.217.220