[外絮] 關鍵的空檔 (kobe不如小馬丁原文已回收

看板NBA (美國籃球)作者 (一根毛兒)時間12年前 (2013/09/18 23:41), 編輯推噓27(29215)
留言46則, 30人參與, 最新討論串1/1
The unguarded 關鍵的空檔 The venerable Justin Kubatko, founder of Basketball-Reference and a lion of the TrueHoop Stat Geek Smackdown (although, it must be said, a cowardly one -- he won the thing twice and has refused to compete since) wrote (Insider) about teams that under and overachieved last year. 令人尊敬的Justin Kubatko是BBR的創始者,也是TrueHoop(譯按:ESPN的 專欄網站)數據怪胎論戰中的雄獅。(雖然我必須說,是隻膽小的雄獅。他 贏了兩次後就不敢再比了。)他寫篇文章關於去年令人失望和令人驚艷的球 隊。 He noted something interesting, specifically that the Thunder were just 3-6 in close games last season, while a year earlier they had been much better. Kubatko writes: 他具體的點出一件有趣的事。雷霆隊去年在分數膠著的比賽中只有三勝六敗 的表現,然而再一年前他們表現卻更好。Kubatko文中寫到: Some might want to blame that performance on the loss of James Harden, one of the league's most efficient fourth-quarter scorers in 2011-12. But Harden's replacement, Kevin Martin, led the NBA with an effective field goal percentage of .793 on shots taken in the fourth quarter or overtime with a scoring margin of three or fewer points. 「有些人可能會把結果怪罪於James Harden的離隊,因為他是2011-12年聯盟 中第四節得分效率最高的球員之一。但補上Harden空缺的Kevin Martin在第四 節或延長賽比賽分差三分內時出手有效命中率(eFG%)高達.793,在這個數據 他領銜全聯盟。」 This piece of news is, for me personally, surprising, delightful and problematic all at once. 這個消息對我個人而言是既充滿驚喜、愉悅又狐疑的。 First: Raise your hand if you were once a devoted listener to Ryen Russillo's NBA Today podcast. 第一:若你是Ryan Russillo的NBA today網路廣播的忠實聽眾請取手。 The story goes like this: In early 2011 I wrote a bunch of stuff about how Kobe Bryant -- despite his reputation -- was no king of crunch time because he misses a hell of a lot. People's thinking about Hero Ball has evolved some in the interim. But back then Kobe won every crunch time poll, whether from players, GMs or fans. That he might not be the best counted as earth-shattering. My friend Russillo was among those to say, essentially, what the hell. 故事是這樣的:在2011年初時我寫了一堆關於Kobe Bryant不是關鍵時刻之王 ,儘管他有這個美譽,因為他關鍵時刻打了很多鐵。在這之間,人們對於關 鍵英雄的討論漸漸產生。但在過往,Kobe贏得每個關於關鍵時刻能力的民調 ,無論球員、GM、或是球迷都投他。若他不被選為最好的則會被視為驚天動 地之事。我朋友Russillo就是那些對於不選他會說出「殺小?!」的人。 Russillo asked me, on his podcast, something like: If the stats showed that some other player, like, say, the famously efficient Kevin Martin, had much better crunch time stats than Bryant, would I give the ball to Martin over Bryant? 在他的節目中,Russillo問我一些像是:「若數據顯示其他球員,像是有名 的高效率球員Kevin Martin有著比Bryant更好的關鍵時刻數據,我會把球給 Martin還是Bryant?」 I said that if the stats showed somebody was way better than Bryant at making late shots, I would pick that guy to take that late shot. 我回答「若數據顯示其他人的最後一擊數據比起Bryant來的好的話,我會選擇 那個人來投最後一擊」。 And in a small, Internetty kind of way, all hell broke loose. In the retelling, the fun little story among Russillo's listeners has become that I'm the nut who said I'd take Kevin Martin over Kobe Bryant, HA HA HA. It still comes up now and again. Even though I never said that. Such is life. 故事接下來,用個網路用語來說,天要塌下來了。在重講這個Russillo聽眾間 的有趣小故事時,內容就變成我是個選擇Kevin Martin而非Kobe Bryant的瘋子 ,哈哈哈。甚至到現在還會被提到,即使我從未這樣說過。人生啊~ Now I know better. Now I know that's the wrong question, for two reasons. First, because crunch time shooting percentages, based on tiny sample sizes, bounce around like crazy from year to year and nobody is consistently near the top. Maybe nobody is truly "clutch." 過了兩季後,我懂更多了,我懂那是個錯誤的問題。首先,關鍵時刻的命中率 是基於小樣本,所以每年的變動幅度很大,而且沒有人一直立於頂端。或者可 以說沒有人是真正的「關鍵殺手」。 But more importantly, picking any guy to take the last shot, no matter what the defense does, is dumb. Teams with go-to scorers who don't pass much are a cinch to defend and struggle to score, because all five defenders know who'll take the shot, which means that guy never has an open shot. 但更重要的是,不管選擇「誰」,無視防守情形的來執行最後一擊都是愚蠢的 。當球隊的最後一擊執行者不會傳球的話,防守既簡單也能讓他不容易得分, 因為五位防守者都知道誰會投最後一球,也就是說這個人不可能有機會有空檔 出手。 Covered shots are very hard for any player to make, and that's exactly why the super-talented Bryant misses nearly 75 percent of the time late in close games. 被守住的投籃無論對誰都是難以投進的,而這也是為什麼超級進攻好手Bryant 會投丟75%的關鍵一擊。 And it's also why, now, this story has taken a twist and, for a season at least, Martin is among the best anywhere at hitting in crunch time: Last season he played with two spectacular late-game ballhogs in Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. 同時也是為什麼這個故事來個急轉彎,至少有理由解釋為什麼Martin是關鍵 時刻的最佳得分手之一:上一季他和兩個拉鋸戰的超級球霸,Kevin Durant和 Russell Westbrook一起打球。 Which meant, by and large, Martin did not get the ball in crunch time. Simple as that. 總的來說,代表Martin關鍵時刻根本碰不到球。就這麼簡單。 He'd go dozens of minutes without launching a shot, as commentators said things like "this has got to be Durant's time." And so it was. On NBA.com/stats I just noodled around with the stats and found in the last five minutes of a game within five, the Thunder's two stars combined to take 176 shots ... to Martin's 12. Their shooting was crummy -- both below 40 percent -- but Martin barely missed. 當球評說「這是Durant接管的時間了」時,他在第四節的時間裡無法投出任 何一球。而事實也是如此。在NBA.com的數據中,我翻來翻去後發現最後五分 鐘、五分差內的比賽,雷霆隊的兩大球星總共投176球……比對Martin的12球 。他們的出手都是濫投-兩個人命中率都低於40%-但Martin幾乎不會打鐵。 My suspicion, in seeing Martin's killer numbers was: That's because Martin didn't get the ball unless he was wide open. 我看到Martin的神級數據後猜想:因為Martin沒有空檔是拿不到球的。 And sure enough, I looked up the video, and that's precisely what it shows. Here's Martin nailing a 3 in overtime against Dallas. There he is breaking the hearts of Nuggets fans on the road, putting the visitors up one with 1:25 left. There he is in Memphis, doubling a three-point lead with a 3. In a season's worth of crunch time 3s, the defense was consistently distorted to Durant and never got close to Martin. 在看過影片後,我發現就是這麼一回事。Martin在對達拉斯的延長賽時砍近 一個三分球。他又在客場比賽中傷透金塊球迷的心,讓雷霆隊在比賽剩一分 二十五秒時領先一分。在曼菲斯時也是一樣,用一顆三分球將三分領先擴大 到六分。在面對價值一個球季的關鍵三分時,防守方一直影響Durant而毫不 理會Martin。 The defense was betting Martin simply would not get the ball -- and it was usually correct. 防守方賭Martin不會拿到球,而這樣賭通常是正確的。 On the odd nights he did get a crunch time shot, he usually made it, because he has always been an excellent shooter, and in other seasons was his team's go-to offensive weapon. These are warm-up shots for him. Martin played 98 minutes with the game within five in the closing five minutes, and over all that time he took six 3-pointers without missing a single one. He was wide open every single time. He attacked with his dribble six times, and scored twice. The rest of the time he didn't shoot. 在些少見晚上,他真的有機會投關鍵一擊,而他通常能投進,因為他一直以 來都是個優質射手,而且在其他幾季也是他所屬球隊的關鍵進攻武器。對他 來說就像投籃練習。在所有五分鐘內小於五分差的比賽,總共98分鐘裡他 顆三分球全部命中。每次出手他都是空檔。其餘六次的進攻是運球後出手, 而這六次中命中兩次。其他的時間他都在打醬油。 Now, I don't know how much this does, if anything, to help Martin's reputation in the minds of fans and Russillo listeners. Martin is making shots lots of players can make, which doesn't make him more talented than Kobe ... there may be no way to rank them or anyone else. Any good scorer can score well in crunch time if the opportunities are there, and crunch time is rare enough that it might never be possible to prove anyone is, long-term, superior. 現在我不知道這些內容有沒有幫助到Martin在球迷及Russillo的聽眾的心中 的名聲,如果能有幫助的話啦。Martin投進多數球員能投進的球,這不代表 他比Kobe更有天份……這兩人本來就不可能放一起比。任何好的得分手能在 關鍵時刻給予機會時順利得分,而關鍵時刻是少見到可能無法證明誰是永遠 的關鍵殺手。 What's inferior, though, is running the "archangel" offense that the Bulls used for a time with Michael Jordan. If Durant and Westbrook had passed just a little more, the team would have scored more points. Advanced analysis has long shown the Thunder offense is better when the two stars do a little less. The same goes for Bryant, and all the NBA's "closers." Move it to the open man. The team gets better looks, and scores more, 'cause that wide open guy has it easy. Get him the ball, not because of who he is, but because of how alone he is. 較差的進攻是像公牛隊以前設計給Michael Jordan的戰術-「球給23號」。 如果Durant和Westbrook能多傳點球的話,球隊便能多得點分。進階數據分析 一直以來都顯示雷霆隊進攻在兩大球星少做點事時更佳。這對Bryant和其他 的NBA「終結者」都是一樣的。傳給空檔的人,球隊能有更佳的進攻選擇、能 得更多分,因為空檔出手更為簡單。把球給他,不是因為他是特定的誰,而是 他有多大空檔。 原文網址- http://tinyurl.com/lulcpcv 心得: 這個作者其實沒有在戰kobe或貶低kobe 甚至解釋一些數據的謬誤 整篇文章重點其實在雷霆雙煞和關鍵時刻的戰術 提到Kobe的部分我想是因為他這兩年內因之前的言論被戰了不少 多少想提一下吧 整篇文章關於關鍵時刻的解讀自己覺得滿中肯的 而且也沒有覺得他把Kobe當噱頭 道歉什麼的我也不知道為什麼 他之前跟球迷們有什麼過節可能就要知情人來解釋了 (有任何翻譯錯誤請不吝嗇指出喔,感謝) -- 新手NBA外電翻譯+數據分析部落格 http://mola79321.pixnet.net/blog 歡迎來討論!!! -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 124.218.28.55

09/18 23:43, , 1F
老大受到的防守待遇不同 是在比屁喔
09/18 23:43, 1F

09/18 23:43, , 2F
優質好文推
09/18 23:43, 2F

09/18 23:43, , 3F
至於為何老大不傳球 這我就不曉得了
09/18 23:43, 3F

09/18 23:45, , 4F
推認真去找原文出來翻~
09/18 23:45, 4F

09/18 23:48, , 5F
讚!
09/18 23:48, 5F

09/18 23:48, , 6F
你們看過閃電霹靂車嗎? 進入零的領域的時候,啥都看
09/18 23:48, 6F

09/18 23:49, , 7F
不到,只看得到目標~
09/18 23:49, 7F

09/18 23:49, , 8F
相信我之術
09/18 23:49, 8F
※ 編輯: idiotsmart 來自: 124.218.28.55 (09/18 23:50)

09/18 23:54, , 9F
KOBE不如很多人 不只小馬丁 現在窮得只剩名氣
09/18 23:54, 9F

09/18 23:58, , 10F
老大的難度高多了 隊友明明有空檔卻不積極進攻 害老
09/18 23:58, 10F

09/18 23:59, , 11F
大要持球面對二包三包投籃
09/18 23:59, 11F

09/18 23:59, , 12F
SG的位置 就一堆人強過KOBE 更別說綜合起來看
09/18 23:59, 12F

09/19 00:00, , 13F
綜合起來看的話 KOBE就要從後面數過來囉
09/19 00:00, 13F

09/19 00:00, , 14F
一個只有商業價值的球員 真不知該說什麼
09/19 00:00, 14F

09/19 00:01, , 15F
不過這篇內文是真的不錯 很多人命中率跟spot up拉起
09/19 00:01, 15F

09/19 00:03, , 16F
來有關 一些後面的出手選擇的確符合這個邏輯(只是手
09/19 00:03, 16F

09/19 00:03, , 17F
感平常投籃機會少要能保持)
09/19 00:03, 17F
※ 編輯: idiotsmart 來自: 124.218.28.55 (09/19 00:06)

09/19 00:06, , 18F
某樓是不是受到什麼打擊XDD
09/19 00:06, 18F

09/19 00:07, , 19F
有空檔不積極進攻(X) 有空檔也拿不到球(O)
09/19 00:07, 19F

09/19 00:07, , 20F
所以LBJ幾次最後一擊傳給空檔的人是正確決定。
09/19 00:07, 20F

09/19 00:07, , 21F
看了看 各路將軍都到了
09/19 00:07, 21F

09/19 00:22, , 22F
老大被敵隊重點看守還能出手,進了應該算三分
09/19 00:22, 22F

09/19 00:22, , 23F
沒進應該算兩分,這樣比較公平
09/19 00:22, 23F

09/19 00:25, , 24F
LBJ的心理素質不是最堅強,其實本來就不適合最後一擊
09/19 00:25, 24F

09/19 00:26, , 25F
樓上可以去複習一下LBJ在騎士的影片 然後摸摸LP
09/19 00:26, 25F

09/19 00:33, , 26F
小馬丁真是出了名的高效
09/19 00:33, 26F

09/19 00:35, , 27F
大推 那種沒人會想到他來投的人怎比得上被包夾三夾
09/19 00:35, 27F

09/19 00:55, , 28F
大推aLLPLaNed
09/19 00:55, 28F

09/19 01:10, , 29F
別崩潰阿
09/19 01:10, 29F

09/19 01:20, , 30F
防守待遇不同,結案
09/19 01:20, 30F

09/19 01:34, , 31F
防守待遇的確不同 kobe直接放投就好了
09/19 01:34, 31F

09/19 01:46, , 32F
樓上看過哪一球KOBE被放投? 還是根本沒看過比賽XD
09/19 01:46, 32F

09/19 02:17, , 33F
推一個
09/19 02:17, 33F

09/19 02:35, , 34F
推~ 打合理籃球才會有合理結果,只打英雄球造成命中
09/19 02:35, 34F

09/19 02:36, , 35F
率低->被抓出來笑 也就怨不得人了
09/19 02:36, 35F

09/19 03:52, , 36F
LBJ又不是都傳給空檔的 是莫名其妙就提早把球分走
09/19 03:52, 36F

09/19 05:16, , 37F
哪種打法我其實覺得沒差耶 那是球隊自己的事 球迷要
09/19 05:16, 37F

09/19 05:17, , 38F
支持也是球迷自己的事 但如果把低效率硬要捧成神級表
09/19 05:17, 38F

09/19 05:18, , 39F
現 那麼球員被戰只能說受他的部分球迷拖累惹^^
09/19 05:18, 39F

09/19 06:07, , 40F
erotica說的是2010對Bos的第五戰和2011對小牛的3,4戰
09/19 06:07, 40F

09/19 06:08, , 41F
吧,有新招嗎?^.<
09/19 06:08, 41F

09/19 06:11, , 42F
又不是都傳空檔?這句頗好笑 哪個球員傳球必出現空檔?
09/19 06:11, 42F

09/19 11:37, , 43F
09/19 11:37, 43F

09/19 11:53, , 44F
09/19 11:53, 44F

09/19 12:51, , 45F
不就拚高光而以,有多少人只看高光卻不知是打多少鐵
09/19 12:51, 45F

09/19 12:51, , 46F
才進那一球的。
09/19 12:51, 46F
文章代碼(AID): #1IESctzs (NBA)
文章代碼(AID): #1IESctzs (NBA)