greatness defendence
Here are SOME Sampras' vs Federer's players whom they had to overcome in the
final rounds, to win each Grand Slam.
Sampras mentioned that the level and depth of competition, he had to deal
with, was much more talented and fierce, than faced by Federer. The FACT HAS
BEEN REPEATED AND AGREED TO, BY MOST EXPERTS AND COMMENTATORS. Here is an
analysis. These are the players, Sampras and Federer had to overcome, in the
final rounds, to win each of the Grand Slam, along with Sampras' and
Federer's & the players faced's year end rankings:
Year Name Opponents faced to win Slam AU FR WB US Total
1990 Pete Sampras Lendl, McEnroe and Agassi - - - One ONE; Year end Sampras
ranking #5; Lendl #3; McEnroe out of top 10; Agassi #4
1993 Agassi, Becker and Courier - - One - TWO; Year end Sampras ranking #1;
Agassi out of top 10; Becker out of top 10; Courier #3
1993 Michael Chang, Cedric Pioline and A. Volvo - - - One THREE; Year end
Sampras ranking #1; Chang #8; Cedric Pioline #10; A. Volvo out of top 10
1994 Lendl, Courier and Martin One - - - FOUR ; Year end Sampras ranking #1;
Lendl out of top 10; Courier out of top 10; Martin #10
1994 Chang, Martin & Ivanisevic - - One - FIVE; Year end Sampras ranking #1;
Chang #6; Martin #10; Ivanisevic #5
1995 Ivanisevic and Becker - - One - SIX; Year end Sampras ranking #1;
Ivanisevic #10; Becker #4
1995 Courier and Agassi - - - One SEVEN; Year end Sampras ranking #1; Courier
#8; Agassi #2
1996 Ivanisevic and Chang - - - One EIGHT; Year end Sampras ranking #1;
Ivanisevic #4; Chang #2
1997 Muster and C. Moya One - - - NINE; Year end Sampras ranking #1; Muster
#9; C. Moya #7
1997 B. Becker & Pioline - - One - TEN; Year end Sampras ranking #1; B.
Becker out of top 10; Pioline out of top 10
1998 Henman & Ivanisevic - - One - ELEVEN; Year end Sampras ranking #1;
Henman #7; Ivanisevic out of top 10
1999 Henman & Agassi - - One - TWELVE; Year end Sampras ranking #3; Henman
out of top 10 & Agassi #1
2000 Patrick Rafter - - One - THIRTEEN; Year end Sampras ranking #3; Rafter
out of top 10
2002 Haas, Roddick & Agassi - - - One FOURTEEN; Year end Sampras ranking out
of top 10; Haas out of top 10; Roddick #10; Agassi #2
==== ===== ===== - - - - -
2003 Roger Federer Phillipoussis & Roddick - - One - ONE; Year end Federer
ranking #2; Phillipoussis #9; Roddick #1
2004 Ferrero & Safin One - - - TWO; Year end Federer ranking #1; Ferrero out
of top 10; Safin #4
2004 Grosjean & Roddick - - One - THREE; Year end Federer ranking #1;
Grosjean out of top 10; Roddick #2
2004 Ferrerro & Safin - - - One FOUR; Year end Federer ranking #1; Ferrerro
out of top 10; Safin #4
2005 Hewitt & Roddick - - One - FIVE; Year end Federer ranking #1; Hewitt #4;
Roddick #3
2005 Hewitt & Agassi - - - One SIX; Year end Federer ranking #1; Hewitt #4;
Agassi #7
2006 Kiefer & Baghdatis One - - - SEVEN; Year end Federer ranking #1; Kiefer
out of top 10; Baghdatis out of top 10
2006 Bjorkman & Nadal - - One - EIGHT; Year end Federer ranking #1; Bjorkman
out of top 10; Nadal #2
2006 Davydenko & Roddick - - - One NINE; Year end Federer ranking #1;
Davydenko #3; Roddick #6
2007 Roddick & Gonzalez One - - - TEN; Current Federer ranking #1; Roddick
#5; Gonzalez #6
2007 Haas, Safin, Carlos Ferrero & Nadal - - -One- ELEVEN; Current Federer
ranking #1; Haas #9; Safin out of top 10; Carlos Ferrero out of top 10 ;
Nadal #2
When we analyze the above data, here are some of the conclusions:
-Hall of Famers during Sampras reign:
I. Lendl.
J. McEnroe.
A. Agassi.
B. Becker.
J. Courier.
P. Rafter.
-Possible the only Hall of Famer in same era against Federer:
R. Nadal - with a winning record against Federer.
& 35-year-old A. Agassi.
Report ViolationAnhdrew (7/25/2007 at 7:58 PM)
NEXT, the actual Grand Slam Finals, along with Sampras' and Federer's & the
players faced's year end rankings:
Grand Slams Competition between Sampras and Federer
Wins (14) Sampras' Slams Wins
Year Championship Opponent in Final Score in Final
1990 U.S. Open Andre Agassi 6-4, 6-3, 6-2; Year end Andre Agassi ranking #4
1993 Wimbledon Jim Courier 7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-3; Year end Jim Courier ranking
#3
1993 U.S. Open (2) Cedric Pioline 6-4, 6-4, 6-3; Year end Cedric Pioline
ranking #10
1994 Australian Open Todd Martin 7-6, 6-4, 6-4; Year end Todd Martin ranking
#10
1994 Wimbledon (2) Goran Ivanisevic 7-6, 7-6, 6-0; Year end Goran Ivanisevic
ranking #5
1995 Wimbledon (3) Boris Becker 6-7, 6-2, 6-4, 6-2; Year end Boris Becker
ranking #4
1995 U.S. Open (3) Andre Agassi 6-4, 6-3, 4-6, 7-5; Year end Andre Agassi
ranking #2
1996 U.S. Open (4) Michael Chang 6-1, 6-4, 7-6; Year end Michael Chang
ranking #2
1997 Australian Open (2) Carlos Moya 6-2, 6-3, 6-3; Year end Carlos Moya
ranking #7
1997 Wimbledon (4) Cedric Pioline 6-4, 6-2, 6-4; Year end Cedric Pioline
ranking out of top 10
1998 Wimbledon (5) Goran Ivanisevic 6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 3-6, 6-2; Year end Goran
Ivanisevic ranking out of top 10
1999 Wimbledon (6) Andre Agassi 6-3, 6-4, 7-5; Year end Andre Agassi ranking
#1
2000 Wimbledon (7) Patrick Rafter 6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 6-2; Year end Patrick Rafter
ranking out of top 10
2002 U.S. Open (5) Andre Agassi 6-3, 6-4, 5-7, 6-4; Year end Andre Agassi
ranking #2
These are Sampras' Slam wins as a teen, 20's, 30's PLAYER and the opponents'
Slams Wins: Agassi: 8 slams; Courier: 4 slams; Pioline :0 slams; Martin: 0
slams; Ivanisevic: 1 slam; Becker: 6 slams; Chang: 1 slam; Moya: 1 slam;
Rafter: 2 slams.
When you factor in the OVERALL times Sampras beat Agassi and other players
multiple times, Sampras' opponents have 48 winning slams EXPERIENCE.
Wins (11) Federer's Slams Wins
Year Championship Opponent in Final Score in Final
2003 Wimbledon (1st) Mark Philippoussis 7-6(5), 6-2, 7-6(3); Year end Mark
Philippoussis ranking #9
2004 Australian Open (1st) Marat Safin 7-6(3), 6-4, 6-2; Year end Marat Safin
ranking #4
2004 Wimbledon (2nd) Andy Roddick 4-6, 7-5, 7-6(3), 6-4; Year end Andy
Roddick ranking #2
2004 U.S. Open (1st) Lleyton Hewitt 6-0, 7-6(3), 6-0; Year end Lleyton Hewitt
ranking #3
2005 Wimbledon (3rd) Andy Roddick 6-2, 7-6(2), 6-4; Year end Andy Roddick
ranking #3
2005 U.S. Open (2nd) Andre Agassi 6-3, 2-6, 7-6(1), 6-1; Year end Andre
Agassi ranking #7
2006 Australian Open (2nd) Marcos Baghdatis 5-7, 7-5, 6-0, 6-2; Year end
Marcos Baghdatis ranking out of top 10
2006 Wimbledon (4th) Rafael Nadal 6-0, 7-6(5), 6-7(2), 6-3; Year end Rafael
Nadal ranking #2
2006 U.S. Open (3rd) Andy Roddick 6-2, 4-6, 7-5, 6-1; Year end Andy Roddick
ranking #6
2007 Australian Open (3rd) Fernando Gonzales 7-6(2), 6-4, 6-4; Current year
Fernando Gonzales ranking #6
2007 Wimbledon (5th) Rafael Nadal 7-6(7), 4-6, 7-6(3), 2-6, 6-2; Current year
Rafael Nadal ranking #2
These are Federer's Slam wins and the opponents' Slams Wins: Philippoussis: 0
slams; Safin: 2 slams; Roddick: 3 slams; Hewitt: 2 slams; Agassi: 8 slams;
Baghdatis: 0 slams; Nadal: 3 slams; Gonzalez: 0 slams.
When you factor in the OVERALL times Federer beat Roddick and other players
multiple times, Federer's opponents have 21 winning slams EXPERIENCE
Conclusion, Sampras' Slam Wins are against 48 winning slams EXPERIENCE;
whereas, Federer's Slam Wins are against 21 winning slams EXPERIENCE.
Report ViolationAnhdrew (7/25/2007 at 7:59 PM)
When we look at these tables, NOT much is that different from a statistics
standpoint. And while I concede your point tripler83 of " i would give this
era a chance for another 4-5 years to find itself an identity.." End of Quote.
THERE ARE PLAYERS Sampras HAS ALREADY PLAYED that Federer played AND GUESS
WHAT?
The COMPETITION ARGUMENT IS VALID!
These are Sampras' Slam wins as a teen, 20's, 30's PLAYER and the opponents'
Slams Wins: Agassi: 8 slams; Courier: 4 slams; Pioline :0 slams; Martin: 0
slams; Ivanisevic: 1 slam; Becker: 6 slams; Chang: 1 slam; Moya: 1 slam;
Rafter: 2 slams. THIS IS DONE. Now here is Sampras' ADVANTAGE OVER Federer.
Here are the head-to-head records of Sampras versus the Finalists Federer
beat in his Slam Finals. And you have every right for your views with Federer
as being "better" one day, etc...but to call people coward for "criticizing"
Federer's era is, hmmm. Anyways, because here are the records of what HAS
HAPPENED and with Sampras' opponents Slam WINS IN THE BOOKS, it's like skubay
says,
"As for the competition issue, that came in a series of posts along with my
opening statement, so they were in fact together, contrary to what you seem
believe here. Like it or not, this issue will continue to haunt Federer, no
matter how lame the dismissals." End Of Quote.
NOW HERE is the GUESS WHAT?
Here are the head-to-head records of Sampras versus the Finalists (and their
ages to dispel the MYTH that the class has no IDENTITY!) Federer beat in his
Slam Finals. NOTE that some of Sampras' losses to Safin, Roddick, Hewitt came
at latter stages of Sampras' career and Married Life-LESS FOCUS on TENNIS.
Sampras 7-3 over Mark Philippoussis ,who was 27, when beaten by Federer in
2003 Slam.
Sampras 3-4 under Safin, who was 24, when beaten by Federer in 2004 Slam.
Sampras 1-2 under Roddick, who was 22, 23, 24, when beaten by Federer in
2004, 2005, 2006 Slam.
Sampras 4-5 under Hewitt, who was 23, when beaten by Federer in 2004 Slam.
Sampras 20-14 over Agassi, who was 35, when beaten by Federer in 2005 Slam.
Sampras is 35-28 (against the players of Federer's and Sampras' time
Together) head-to-head against the Grand Slams Finalists Federer beat
It's like skubay says,
"As for the competition issue, that came in a series of posts along with my
opening statement, so they were in fact together, contrary to what you seem
believe here. Like it or not, this issue will continue to haunt Federer, no
matter how lame the dismissals." End Of Quote.
35-28!
And furthermore, while Sampras was 1-2 against Roddick when they played, with
HIS NEW RACKET and STRINGS, In 2006, Sampras announced he would be playing in
World Team Tennis events. 2007 saw Sampras announcing that he would play in a
few events on the Outback Champions Series, a group of tournaments for former
ATP players who have met certain criteria during their careers. Sampras won
his first two events on tour, defeating Todd Martin in both finals (one of
which included Sampras' first trip to his ancestral homeland, Greece). Many
observers noted that despite his lengthy layoff from competitive tournaments,
Sampras still possessed many of the previous skills he had once displayed on
the ATP tour, with John McEnroe going as far as to say that Sampras would be
worthy of a top five seed at Wimbledon if he were to enter the tournament.
BACK TO RODDICK, with Sampras' NEW RACKET AND STRINGS, EXCERPT :"Drive around
Beverly Hills at around 1:30 p.m. a few times a week and listen for that
sweet sound of a perfectly hit tennis ball. And when security chases you
away, go check out Pete [Sampras] in an exhibition, the likes of which he has
been dominating since this past fall with wins over Andy Roddick, Robby
Ginepri and Todd Martin." END OF EXCERPT.
It's EXHIBITION, BUT Sampras at 35 BEATING, DOMINATING! Andy Roddick (3 times
loser to Federer in Slam Finals) tells A LOT about the current ATP tour.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/justin_gimelstob/12/21/sampras.federer/1.html
35-28!
So in closing, it's anybody's right to have an opinion on GOAT, but RACKETS,
STRINGS-the way it DEFINED the way a GROUP of PLAYERS PLAY, BASELINE,
allowing Federer A LOOK at many OPPONENTS with BASICALLY the SAME GAME IS A
VALID ARGUMENT!
Martina Navratilova talks of the rackets and the way players HAVE BECOME
ONE-DIMENSIONAL BASELINE PLAYERS:
"Essentially, that's what we have in tennis. The rackets are so forgiving, it
makes it very easy to hit great shots. That's why the baseline game is so
dominant, because the rackets are so tailored for that. Even (Roger) Federer,
who used to serve and volley, is staying back more because it's safer." END
OF QUOTE.
From a scientific SOURCE:
"In the last four years, almost every top male has at some point switched
from gut strings, made from cow intestines, to polyester strings-such as
Luxilon-or to some combination of the two (usually polyester for the main
strings, which travel from throat to tip, paired with gut on the cross
strings, though Federer favors the opposite). Agassi, speaking to reporters
recently, said Luxilon strings "really bite the ball," increasing spin.
Federer and such players as Rafael Nadal, Marat Safin, and James Blake swing
with such ferocity that they must use less powerful rackets in order to
produce the spin and angles essential for attack. The rackets put brute force
in the service of finesse. The players don't serve-and-volley much, fearing a
sharply angled, heavily spun reply. They do, however, charge the net as
needed. They punish short returns. They hit dazzling-and once
impossible-crosscourt winners from outside the doubles alley." End of Quote.
The class of 2002-2007: In the last four years, almost every top male has at
some point switched from gut strings.They hit dazzling-AND ONCE
IMPOSSIBLE-crosscourt winners from outside the doubles alley.
NOTE that Sampras USED the NEW RACKETS and STRINGS to DOMINATE RODDICK and
Martin in the exhibitions.
Incidentally, Sampras FACED VARIED PLAYERS while contrastingly, Federer's
game is IDEAL when FACING BASELINERS! And while he has the same rackets as
everybody else in the 2002-2007 class, Federer is BENEFITING from the ONCE
IMPOSSIBLE crosscourt winners from outside the doubles alley?
Further, Federer is smart to stay back and HIT; BUT it's against a GROUP of
players who fell in love with the baseline, becoming A ONE-DIMENSIONAL
GROUP!, which I concede Federer being very good at figuring out 2002-2007,
BUT at the same time it's a ONE-DIMENSIONAL GROUP!, making the competition
easier to figure out than what Sampras faced when FACING VARIED COMPETITION!
COMPETITION:
Here are the head-to-head records of Sampras versus the Finalists (and their
ages [see middle of post and the TABLES] to dispel the MYTH that the class
has no IDENTITY!) Federer beat in his Slam Finals. VALID: 35-28!
PETE SAMPRAS #1 GOAT!!!
--
網球有一個道統, Rod Laver,John McEnroe,Boris Becker,Stefan Edberg,Pete Sampras
相繼不絕. 這個道統就是發球上網的基礎.
--
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