[洋基] Chien-Ming Wang was broken. Did they …

看板NY-Yankees作者 (耿秋)時間16年前 (2009/05/23 23:10), 編輯推噓61(61052)
留言113則, 28人參與, 最新討論串1/2 (看更多)
http://statspeak.net/2009/05/chien-ming-wang-was-broken-did-they-fix-him.html 球速回來了,伸卡球的水平的movement有了,但垂直的movement掉得不夠...甚至比前三 場先發掉得還少.... 小王想要用更高的放球點來投球....Orz Statistically Speaking May 23, 2009 Chien-Ming Wang was broken. Did they fix him? Chien-Ming Wang returned to the major league mound on Friday night in relief of the struggling AJ Burnett. In three innings of work, he allowed 2 runs on 6 hits (one home run) and one walk. That outing lowered his season ERA by 9 1/2 points... to a cool 25.00. Yikes. Wang had been rehabbing what was diagnosed as essentially weakness in his hips, which reportedly resulted from a foot injury he sustained last season in Houston while running the bases. He had been doing relatively well in rehab starts in AAA, and the Yankees needed a long reliever for the game after burning the bullpen the night before. I mentioned above Wang's results for the night, but let's take a look at how he got there, through the eyes of pitch f/x. His average fastball was a strong 92.5 mph, averaging about 10 inches of horizontal movement and 6.8 inches of vertical "rise." How does that compare to the beginning of this season, when he was getting bombed, and to 2008, when he was pretty good? Here's a grid, for easier comparison: Game Avg. Velocity Max. Velocity Horiz. Mmt(in.) Vert. Mmt (in.) 2008 91.8 ~95 11 4.9 2009 90.7 ~93 9.3 5.7 Tonight 92.5 95 10 6.8 Alright, so we see that his velocity tonight was back where it should be, and his horizontal movement is creeping back up. But what's up with the vertical movement? He's a sinker-ball specialist, remember. The lower the value of the vertical movement, the more the ball is "sinking." Curveballs, which have a sharp downward break, are in the negatives. Tonight, 50% of his balls in play were groundballs, might that have been a fluke? Let's look at some individual games and find out. One of his best games in 2008 happened on May 2nd against the Mariners. He had 5 K's, 2 walks, in 6 innings, allowing one run. More importantly (for our purposes), the M's had 10 groundballs versus only 2 flyballs. In that game, Wang had 14.5 inches of horizontal movement, which is just fantastic, and 4.5 inches of vertical movement, which is also great. Going back a month earlier to opening day (which I was at), Wang threw 7 innings with 16 (!) groundballs, versus only 3 flyballs. In that game, the numbers were almost identical to the gem against the Mariners. He had 13 inches of horizontal movement and 4.5 inches of vertical movement, both of those of course being fantastic for a sinker/2-seamer. So it would seem that it's the vertical movement that's causing him problems. here's the part that completely threw me when looking into this: Chien-Ming Wang's vertical movement on his 4/8 and 4/18 starts of this season were 5 inches and 3.5 inches, respectively. Remember, in those games he got absolutely bombed to the tune of 5 innings and 15 runs. His ball was sinking, but it was still getting rocked. Here was my reaction upon seeing this. My next stop was the location graphs available on Brooks Baseball. If you look at Friday's game, you'll see that there were very few balls just below the strike zone. Compare that to his opening day start from 2008, and you see some difference. The Friday start isn't nearly as down in the zone. These two starts, both from earlier this season, are even worse. Ok, so that was a lot of links all at once. If you got confused with keeping track of what's what, or you just don't want to click through, here's what it means: Wang isn't keeping the ball down this year nearly as well as he did in 2008. While his ball is sinking, it's not being thrown down in the zone enough to be effective. Finally, here is what I believe to be the main reason for his problems. There are 5 links below, all of them are from games already referenced in this post. What the images show is release point data, from pitch f/x. Simply put, the 2008 release points are from good games, the 2009 release points are from bad games. Try opening each one in a different tab and switch back and forth to more clearly see the difference. 4/1/2008 5/2/2008 4/8/2009 4/18/2009 5/22/2009 Pay special attention to the first two versus the last three. See how the first two graphs have the cluster of points lower and farther away than the last three? This means that Wang's release point in 2008 was lower than it currently is. As you can see, his stay on the DL has done nothing to change that--it is still higher than it was in two of his most dominant starts of 2008. The thing that troubles me most as a Yankee fan is that neither Wang nor the Yankees seem to realize this. Take this snippet from beat writer Pete Abraham on April 14th, after Wang allowed 8 runs in an inning of work the day before: "Wang seemed stunned. He said the issue was where he released the ball, which was off to the side instead of over the top. A sinkerball pitcher wants to stand tall on the mound and throw the ball on a downward plane. Otherwise the ball floats over the strike zone and you see what happens." Despite having success in 2008 with a lower release point than he had in the early stages in 2009, he wanted to raise his release point even more. To answer the question in the title, "did they fix him?" As it stands right now, I don't think they did. --Chien-Ming Wang's release point has been discussed previously at River Ave. Blues. --Thanks to Brooks Baseball and FanGraphs for pitch f/x data. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 61.225.145.15

05/23 23:12, , 1F
快推免得人家說我看不懂
05/23 23:12, 1F
※ 編輯: leddy 來自: 61.225.145.15 (05/23 23:13)

05/23 23:15, , 2F
sinker不是出手點低一點 會比較有垂直的movement嗎?
05/23 23:15, 2F

05/23 23:19, , 3F
看不懂 6.8不是大於5.7 4.9嗎??
05/23 23:19, 3F

05/23 23:20, , 4F
他揮臂動作是比以前高,球速出來剩下就是微調了
05/23 23:20, 4F

05/23 23:21, , 5F
那個值越低movement越好...
05/23 23:21, 5F

05/23 23:22, , 6F
真正狀況的確要跟大聯盟打者對決才看得出來,小王加油
05/23 23:22, 6F

05/23 23:23, , 7F
當中繼可以催球速 先發還會有相同的水準嗎?
05/23 23:23, 7F

05/23 23:26, , 8F
release point整整高了半英呎耶....
05/23 23:26, 8F

05/23 23:28, , 9F
他這一場的伸卡橫移的比較多
05/23 23:28, 9F

05/23 23:29, , 10F
至少今天投完 讓小王知道現在還有很多要改
05/23 23:29, 10F

05/23 23:29, , 11F
請問小王自己投球時 球會橫移或垂直他自己不知道嗎?
05/23 23:29, 11F

05/23 23:30, , 12F
不然同樣伸卡 怎有的球是橫移 有的是垂直
05/23 23:30, 12F

05/23 23:31, , 13F
我想只有knuckleball pitcher才會不知道自己球大概會怎麼跑
05/23 23:31, 13F

05/23 23:32, , 14F
那兩個movement當然是同時的事情....不然就是兩種球路了
05/23 23:32, 14F

05/23 23:32, , 15F
小王出手時 應該可以控制球是上下跑 還是左右跑吧?
05/23 23:32, 15F

05/23 23:34, , 16F
很少有球路單純只有一個軸的位移的...
05/23 23:34, 16F

05/23 23:35, , 17F
他的伸卡都是往右打者內角跑吧
05/23 23:35, 17F

05/23 23:36, , 18F
小便球就只有一個位移啦....
05/23 23:36, 18F

05/23 23:47, , 19F
放球點跟進DL前一模一樣 -_-|||
05/23 23:47, 19F

05/23 23:49, , 20F
那數字到達0的話是什麼意思啊??
05/23 23:49, 20F

05/23 23:50, , 21F
Curve就是負的...
05/23 23:50, 21F

05/23 23:51, , 22F
那個值是個比較值
05/23 23:51, 22F

05/23 23:55, , 23F
垂直的不夠多 那投教沒法指導嗎?
05/23 23:55, 23F

05/23 23:55, , 24F
原來愛蘭德一直說沒問題的原因就是現在的機制對他是正確的
05/23 23:55, 24F

05/23 23:56, , 25F
完全垂直就變成指叉球啦
05/23 23:56, 25F

05/23 23:56, , 26F
也許這是多練滑球的關係?
05/23 23:56, 26F

05/23 23:56, , 27F
一般來講...high slot的垂直變化會比較大
05/23 23:56, 27F

05/23 23:57, , 28F
而越低就會越往左移動的越多(右投手為例,下勾不考慮)
05/23 23:57, 28F

05/23 23:58, , 29F
pFX這麼容易指導就人人變CY了...
05/23 23:58, 29F

05/23 23:58, , 30F
Eiland的思維就很傳統...
05/23 23:58, 30F

05/23 23:58, , 31F
基本上,他的作法沒什麼不對
05/23 23:58, 31F

05/23 23:58, , 32F
就增加他的垂直movement而言
05/23 23:58, 32F

05/23 23:59, , 33F
但是,這很有可能讓弊大於利的可能性
05/23 23:59, 33F

05/24 00:01, , 34F
今天我聽mlbtv,球評好像有講王這樣應該要有第二球種會比較好
05/24 00:01, 34F

05/24 00:02, , 35F
乾脆把王建民賣出去啦 侮辱人家也要有限度
05/24 00:02, 35F

05/24 00:03, , 36F
現在缺的不是3A調整 而是大聯盟感覺來回溫手感.經驗
05/24 00:03, 36F

05/24 00:03, , 37F
#2 pitch這已經不是新聞了,三年前就在球探報告出現過了
05/24 00:03, 37F

05/24 00:05, , 38F
但是沒長出來,而且王本身好像不會自己調整呀,這樣頗麻煩的
05/24 00:05, 38F
還有 35 則推文
05/24 00:36, , 74F
勇士的比較低阿XD
05/24 00:36, 74F

05/24 00:36, , 75F
XD
05/24 00:36, 75F

05/24 00:38, , 76F
XDD 這句有婊
05/24 00:38, 76F

05/24 00:49, , 77F
Hughes的cutter還沒練滿一年,快練好吧~
05/24 00:49, 77F

05/24 01:09, , 78F
問個蠢問題,小王真被丟到MILB 那一定大家搶者撿
05/24 01:09, 78F

05/24 01:09, , 79F
那是有什麼規則能決定誰能撿到這名球員呢?
05/24 01:09, 79F

05/24 01:10, , 80F
大家搶著撿的話,王建民是沒辦法clear waiver到minor的XD
05/24 01:10, 80F

05/24 01:12, , 81F
戰績最差的同一聯盟球隊有優先權吧
05/24 01:12, 81F

05/24 01:13, , 82F
如果是claim waiver的話
05/24 01:13, 82F

05/24 01:29, , 83F
他出手點比前一年要高很多了 還想要更高....是怎樣
05/24 01:29, 83F

05/24 01:30, , 84F
學王大蠻吧,這樣就超高的
05/24 01:30, 84F

05/24 01:31, , 85F
XDDDDDDDD
05/24 01:31, 85F

05/24 01:39, , 86F
怎麼都有的說嘴的吧!你就期待每個投手每場都能有
05/24 01:39, 86F

05/24 01:40, , 87F
最大的球速 最大的水平位移 最大的垂直位移 最大的尾勁!
05/24 01:40, 87F

05/24 01:43, , 88F
球種說就更好笑了 他從以前就這樣了 又不是現在才這樣
05/24 01:43, 88F

05/24 01:44, , 89F
總之爆了三場後,什麼都不對了!科科~
05/24 01:44, 89F

05/24 01:52, , 90F
關於原文想要用更高的放球點 是看那三張圖推論的
05/24 01:52, 90F

05/24 01:52, , 91F
還是有外電?
05/24 01:52, 91F

05/24 01:52, , 92F
外電
05/24 01:52, 92F

05/24 01:53, , 93F
他那三場只是告訴大家一個 CMW & Silva 真的很像
05/24 01:53, 93F

05/24 01:53, , 94F
sinker 不在的時候就變人肉發球機
05/24 01:53, 94F

05/24 01:54, , 95F
CCLu終於寫新文章了XD
05/24 01:54, 95F

05/24 01:54, , 96F
http://cclu.blogspot.com/ 反正正好也談到這個問題
05/24 01:54, 96F

05/24 01:54, , 97F
有人知道CCLu寫經濟學的部落格嗎?
05/24 01:54, 97F

05/24 01:55, , 98F
不過反正練其他球種講了好幾年也沒有明顯進步
05/24 01:55, 98F

05/24 01:56, , 99F
哪一家媒體的外電阿?
05/24 01:56, 99F

05/24 01:56, , 100F
一直提增加球種意義似乎也不大就是
05/24 01:56, 100F

05/24 01:56, , 101F
CCLu近期的棒球BLOG文章的comments底下有...
05/24 01:56, 101F

05/24 01:57, , 102F
05/24 01:57, 102F

05/24 01:59, , 103F
看了半天找不到 哭哭 感謝appshjkli大大囉
05/24 01:59, 103F

05/24 02:04, , 104F
CCLu對Arod的評論跟OoyaoO的轉錄不太一樣 = =|||
05/24 02:04, 104F

05/24 02:12, , 105F
CCLu寫的應該就是stark文章中球探寫的那一段...
05/24 02:12, 105F

05/24 02:18, , 106F
#13Eispmr (NY-Yankees) 囧> 我沒在記人名的
05/24 02:18, 106F

05/24 02:28, , 107F
#1A5XIO5K 原來Stark還真的有來這版XDD
05/24 02:28, 107F

05/24 06:51, , 108F
污辱王建民? 拜託 王迷就算仇視洋基也有個限度好嗎
05/24 06:51, 108F

05/24 06:53, , 109F
球團怎麼可能有控去侮辱球員 實力才是一切好嗎
05/24 06:53, 109F

05/24 07:35, , 110F
爲什麼要理那種很明顯就是在引戰的人呢
05/24 07:35, 110F

05/24 07:45, , 111F
小白不要管他們就不會有戰文了
05/24 07:45, 111F

05/24 07:50, , 112F
抱歉 一不小心就被激到了....
05/24 07:50, 112F

05/24 08:24, , 113F
原來是那篇阿 感謝leddy大大
05/24 08:24, 113F
文章代碼(AID): #1A617iqS (NY-Yankees)
文章代碼(AID): #1A617iqS (NY-Yankees)