PTT體育區 / Lakers (洛杉磯 湖人)

Re: [外電] 對手都說了：笨蛋！問題在Kobe！

看板Lakers (洛杉磯 湖人)作者 (總板文字獄)時間13年前 (2012/12/21 01:37), 編輯推噓44(45推 1噓 87→)
留言133則, 44人參與, 最新討論串3/4 (看更多)
: 這賽季，湖人(12-14)在Kobe出手超過20次時的勝敗比是4-11，而在Kobe : 出手低於20次時，他們打出了8-3的成績。這無關乎對手，在出手少於20 : 次時，他們贏過小牛、金塊、勇士、火箭和籃網，這些對手成績都比湖人 : 好。而如果Kobe出手超過20次呢？他們輸給太陽、巫師、七六人和山貓， : 這些隊伍加起來只有32-64(勝率33.3%)的成績。而出手少獲勝的球隊們， : 加起來卻有87-112(勝率43.7%)的成績。 第一個引用數據就錯了,湖人對上太陽和山貓明明是贏球 出手超過20次輸球的那兩場應該是溜馬和快艇,這兩隊可不弱 因為球隊搞錯所以後面那個勝率顯然是錯的,我懶得算看有沒有人要算正確的 : This trend intrigued me so I decided to go back even further, checking the : numbers for the previous two seasons. The evidence was overwhelming: when : Bryant shoots fewer than 20 times in a game, the Lakers are outstanding. When : he shoots 20 or more times, they're only slightly above mediocre. : 這情況讓我(外電作者)相當好奇，所以我決定回頭看前兩個賽季，得到 : 的證據更具有說服力了：Kobe出手低於20次時，湖人打得相當傑出。但 : 當他出手超過20次的話，他們就偏向於二流的球隊。 不止國內啦,國外也是有腦筋不清楚的人 我是因為工作忙才常加班? 還是動作慢老是拖到最後一刻,常加班所以看起來工作忙? 是Kobe多出手導致輸球? 還是快輸了使Kobe不得不多出手? 你如果不把事情的因果關係搞清楚,當然會得出錯誤的結論, 是因為我帶傘出門才下雨,還是下雨所以我帶傘出門? 以今年比賽為例,隊友命中率高的比賽,Kobe幾乎都是讓隊友發揮 對金塊得112分他只出手15次,對小牛得115分只出手11次 對火箭得119分出手18次 那Kobe什麼時候多出手?隊友陷入得分乾旱期,快輸的時候 對溜馬得77分出手28次,對騎士得94分出手28次 當隊友都投不進,當你自己就是全隊最好的進攻選擇 這時候出手不是一種罪惡,而是承擔責任 : Last season, the Lakers were 26-19 when Bryant took 20 or more shots. That's : a .578 winning percentage. Not bad. But they were 10-3 in the other games, a : winning percentage of .769. In 2010-11, Phil Jackson's last season, the : Lakers were 24-17 (.585) when Bryant shot 20 or more times and 33-8 (.805) : when he took fewer shots. : 上賽季，湖人在Kobe出手超過20次時拿到了26-19，57.8%的勝率，看起來 : 不錯；但低於20次時卻有10-3，76.9%的勝率。回顧禪師在的最後一個球 : 季，比例更是有差距：58.5%：80.5%。 : So over the past three seasons, including 2012-13, the Lakers are 54-47 when : Bryant shoots 20 times or more. To put it in perspective, that .535 winning : percentage equates to a 44-38 record over 82 games. Over that same span, when : Bryant takes less than 20 shots, the Lakers are 51-14 (.785), which would be : a 64-18 mark in an 82-game season. : 從上三個賽季來看，包括本賽季，湖人在Kobe出手超過20次時有53.5%的 : 勝率，如果換算成一個賽季，就是44勝38敗。在同樣的換算方法下，若 : Kobe出手低於20次，有78.5%的勝率，換算起來就是64勝18敗。 : It seems pretty clear cut: the Lakers are better, and would be better this : season, if Bryant shot less. At least that's what the statistics say. : 從數據上來看，很明顯的，如果Kobe少投一些，今年的湖人會變得更加的 : 優秀。 老實講這就是標準的引用片面數據得出錯誤結論 你至少應該列一下團隊得分,對手得分,比分差,對手勝率等等條件 沒有人在做科學統計的時候不考慮各種變數,單純拿兩個數字就硬扯他們有關係的 這樣不是科學而是迷信 這種行為跟Jason Terry相信賽前吃炸雞就會贏球一樣,沒有任何根據 : But I didn't want to jump to conclusions simply based on the numbers, so I : decided to call some of the league's basketball minds to get their take on : the topic. I wanted to know whether Bryant needed to be reigned in, or : whether he's simply shooting so much because the Lakers' roster is so limited : and it's the only chance they have to stay in games. : 但我(外電作者)不想這麼快只靠數據得到這個結論，所以我問了幾個在NBA : 裡相關人員的意見。我想知道對他們來說，究竟Kobe想支配比賽，或是Kobe : 只是不得不投這麼多球來讓湖人維持住比賽的分數。 : I asked one general manager, an assistant coach and two scouts, all of whom : work for teams that have played Bryant and the Lakers this season. Their : views were strong: : 我問了幾個GM、一個助教和兩個球探，這些人所屬的球隊都跟Kobe在本賽季 : 有交手過，他們的觀點非常的強而有力。 名字哩?沒附消息來源,誰知道你訪問的是隔壁老王還是強者我朋友? 這種道聽塗說可信度比數字周刊還不如,至少人家還敢具名 : The assistant coach says: : "Absolutely, Kobe's shooting too much. When we played them, we told our guys, : 'Look, we don't necessarily want Kobe going for 50. I mean, we're going to : guard him. But we're not going to double him, and we're not going to try to : get the ball out of his hands.' Our main concerns were not to let [Antawn] : Jamison hit a bunch of 3s and not to let Dwight [Howard] go crazy down low. : There's no question they would be a better team if Kobe shot less. Why do you : think [Pau] Gasol struggles? He's going to struggle in any offense where he : doesn't touch it. : 助理教練如此說：廢話，Kobe當然投太多了！當我們跟湖人打時，教練團都告訴 : 球員們：我們不在乎Kobe得個50分，我的意思是，只要單防他，不要包夾他，不 : 要讓球離開他的手上。我們只要不讓Antawn Jamison投一堆三分，或是讓Howard : 在低位肆虐就好。毫無疑問的Kobe少投一點這支球隊會更好，你以為為什麼Gasol : 如此掙扎？當任何進攻機會他都碰不到球，他不掙扎才怪。 Antawn Jamison投一堆三分的比賽,今年只有兩場 Howard在低位肆虐的比賽更少,掉球失誤罰不進倒是很多 我是不太相信有哪個白痴會說不要守Kobe讓他砍50分也不要給這兩個人拿球啦 Gasol碰不到球?15000分那球誰傳給他的? 誰在Gasol回來第一場就跟他打漂亮配合的? 你確定你訪問的不是隔壁老王嗎? : "At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with [Mike] D'Antoni and his : system. It's all about what Kobe will allow to happen. When you play the : Lakers, it's like they don't have a system. It's whatever Kobe chooses it to : be. If he wants to take all the shots, he'll do that. He'll pacify his : teammates early in the game, but then he'll throw up a heat check and if he's : got it going, nobody else touches the ball. And then the other team benefits : because the other Lakers won't defend as hard and they won't be engaged : because they're not a part of the game on the offensive end. Kobe has to : trust you, and it looks like he thinks most of his guys aren't trustworthy : yet. : 而且老實說，面對D'Antoni的系統根本不需要做甚麼應對。因為他的系統就是 : 看Kobe想怎麼打。跟湖人打，就好像湖人沒有任何系統，只看Kobe的選擇。如 : 果他想幹進每一球，他就會這麼做。這對其他湖人球員來說無疑是傷害，他們 : 將很難提起精神防守，因為他們就好像在攻擊端被切割了一樣。Kobe也許會相 : 信你，但看起來他似乎認為到目前為止所有人都不值得信任。 國家隊的教練沒有進攻系統?你胡扯也有個限度 湖人現在的教練雖然也叫Mike可是他不姓Brown好嗎 湖人沒有系統,所以Meeks,Jamison,MWP突然復活都是巧合 湖人得分突然飆到破百也是運氣好而已就對了? : "The problem between Kobe and Dwight is that you can't have Dwight on the : floor in the fourth quarter, so how can you play through him. In Kobe's mind, : that's why he doesn't pass the ball to Dwight. But the Lakers really need to : sit down with Kobe and say, 'At this stage, this is what's best for the : Lakers. We've got to play through our bigs.' : "Memphis is the best high-low team in the league with Marc Gasol and [Zach] : Randolph. The Lakers could play that way with Dwight and Pau, but with Kobe : shooting 28 times that's not going to happen. That could definitely work, but : the key is getting Kobe to sign off on it. The thing bout this league is that : every team is known for something. When you play the Lakers, you don't worry : about stopping Kobe. You just make sure those other four guys don't have : career nights because you can beat the Lakers with Kobe scoring 34, 35 : points. Your biggest worry is if Kobe scores 25 points and has 8 assists and : then Dwight has 20 points and 16 rebounds and Pau has 18 and 11 and Nash : scores 16 with 10 assists.'' : 夾在Kobe跟Howard的問題是他不想把Howard放在第四節的場上，如果這麼做了， : 那就無法忽視他了，在kobe心中，這就是他不想把球傳給Howard的原因了。但湖 : 人應該要告訴Kobe，在這個時間點，這才是最好的選擇，我們必須把球交給隊伍 : 裡的大個子。 交給他的話他罰得進球嗎? 你要昧著良心說讓DH去罰球是最好的選擇? : 灰熊隊是高低位打得最好的球隊，因為有M.Gasol和Randolph。而湖人也可以如法 : 炮製到Howard和Gasol身上，但當Kobe出手28次就不可能了。這招一定有用，但關 : 鍵是必須把Kobe抽離開。聯盟裡大家都知道，如果要跟湖人打，你不需要煩惱如何 : 守住Kobe，你只要確認其他四個人不會打出生涯新高就好。因為就算Kobe得個34、 : 35分，你照樣可以擊敗他們。但當Kobe得個25分8助攻你就要擔心了，因為Howard : 會有20分16板，Gasol會有18分11板，Nash會有16分10助攻。 可以看18018篇,實際上就是這兩人今年低位效率低落,比不上灰熊雙塔 現在給他們打結果不會比給Kobe打好 什麼時候湖人雙塔可以增加出手?Nash回來,湖人能打出高水準擋拆的時候 : The scout says: : "One thing our coach always says is, 'Kobe's probably going to get his 28 : points, but let's make sure it's on 28 shots and not 16 shots.' I would like : to look at some box scores in detail to see if the Lakers are down in the : fourth quarter and Kobe starts shooting a lot to lift them to a come back, or : to see whether he was he getting to the foul line a lot in those other games : where he didn't have as many field goal attempts. : "Watching the Lakers play the Knicks this year was hard to watch because the : other Lakers were just so bad. It was like Kobe was trying to do all he could : just to keep that game close. And hey, if Dwight's not going to try his butt : off and if other guys aren't going to try their butts off, then I'm going to : give the ball to the guy that's going to go for it, and that's Kobe. I don't : think it's that Kobe doesn't trust his teammates; it's just that he trusts : himself more. A questionable shot by him still might be better than a good : look for one of those other guys. To me, they look disinterested. : "There's no chemistry. They're not pulling for one another. They're just a : collection of individual talent that happens to be in the same place wearing : the same uniforms. They look listless. Not Kobe, though.'' : 球探如此說：教練總是告訴球員，Kobe得28分是必然的，但我們要讓他出手28 : 次才得到這些分數，而不是16次。看著分數盒子的細節，去了解湖人在第四節 : 若處於低潮，Kobe就會開始一直投一直投來反擊。但在其他比賽，他若沒有出 : 手太多球，他必然能得到很多罰球的機會。 : 尼克和湖人今年的比賽打得如此難看，就是因為其他湖人球員們很糟。Kobe想 : 盡自己所能的去讓比分不被拉開，但若Howard或其他人不在狀態內，他就會把 : 球交給他所信賴的人，那就是他自己－Kobe。我不認為這代表Kobe不信任自己 : 的隊友，這只代表他更相信他自己。他寧願投出高難度的出手也不願意有個漂 : 亮的傳球給其他隊友。對我來說，他的隊友看起來對這種比賽毫無興趣。 : 這樣完全沒有化學效應，他們不會彼此互相推動每一個人，他們只是一群有著 : 個人的天分，在同一個地方比賽，穿著同樣的制服。他們毫無生氣，當然，Kobe : 例外。 這沒什麼好說的,Kobe是天生的得分機器,他不是魔術強森 所以不要希望他做魔術強森。 Kobe相信Nash,等Nash回來,讓他做最好的分配 這樣就夠了 : The general manager says: : "Everyone thinks the problem is everybody else but to me, the problem is : Kobe. Take a look at Andrew Bynum's quotes the other day, where he said Kobe : stunted his growth. He didn't like playing with Kobe. : "And Pau? Pau's a really nice guy and Kobe just walks all over him. On the : one hand, it's good for Pau because it helps make him tougher but overall, I : think it hurts his game. Kobe can smack Pau upside the head and Pau will : still go back to him and say, 'Yes sir.' He's just too nice of a guy. But Pau : can play. They won a few championships with him, so this notion that Kobe : doesn't have anyone to play with and that he has to take all these shots is : just wrong. Go back to the Oklahoma City series. Everybody blamed it on Pau : and Bynum, but to me, it was more Kobe's fault. : And we know what kind of a player Dwight is. He's not at his best because : he's coming off the back injury and because of the system D'Antoni's running, : but it's obvious to me that Kobe doesn't trust him. And I'm not so sure he : likes the way Dwight jokes around so much.'' : GM如此說：每個人都認為問題不是出在我身上，這就是Kobe的問題。看看前幾天 : Bynum說Kobe限制了他的發展，他一點也不喜歡跟Kobe一同打球。 : 而Gasol呢？他是個很棒的傢伙，而Kobe壓制了他。對Gasol來說或許能讓他更為 : 堅強，但整體來說，這是在傷害比賽。Kobe可以敲Gasol的頭，而Gasol卻只能說 : "Yes,Sir"，就因為Gasol人太好。但Gasol還是能打的，他們在有Gasol的情況下 : 贏過幾次冠軍，所以Kobe這種認為沒人是他隊友，他要自幹每個投籃的想法是錯 : 的。回頭看看跟雷霆的系列賽，很多人都怪罪在禁區雙塔，但對我來說，我覺得 : Kobe的責任更大。 事實是,Gasol跟Bynum,是在和Kobe合作時,才打出生涯高峰 很有趣的是,當他們陷入低潮,你居然怪罪的不是他們自己而是Kobe? 你可以回去看看08年的Gasol,多麼輕鬆寫意,多麼神采奕奕 那時候Kobe出手是有比現在少喔? 怎麼現在就叫做Kobe壓制他? : 我們都知道Howard是多棒的球員，他現在不在最佳狀態，是因為傷勢和D'Antoni : 體系的不合。但對我來說很明顯的，Kobe不信任他，我不知道是不是因為Howard : 很愛四處開玩笑的關係。 這個真的是純粹的腦補了,完全沒半點根據 講這種話不會臉紅嗎? : Another scout says: : "That's been debated a lot -- whether Kobe is shooting too much. It's hard to : argue against that if they're 8-3 when he doesn't shoot it 20 times. But I'd : have to look at each game and study the game situations to really come to a : conclusion. I don't think he's purposely hogging the ball or doing things : selfishly to keep the team from winning. He's not trying to do anything to : hurt the team. If he is shooting too much, it's only because he thinks that's : what he has to do for the Lakers to win. : "My gut reaction is to say that Kobe does not need to shoot less. He's a top : 5 player in the league, he's leading the league in scoring and he's shooting : a good percentage. That's a big key - he's shooting a high percentage. It'd : be one thing if he was forcing up shots and shooting poorly. But I will say : this, when you have as much talent as they do, you shouldn't have to shoot it : as much as Kobe has been.'' : 另一個球探則說：關於Kobe是否射太多的問題這已經被討論到爛了。但擺在眼前 : 的事實很難被反駁－他們在Kobe低於20次出手時拿下了8-3的成績。但我必須要 : 看過每場比賽的狀況才能得出結論。我不認為他是想要有出手權並打出自私的球 : 風來幫助球隊維持住比賽分數差距，他不是在試圖傷害這支球隊。如果他出手太 : 多次，只是他想要這麼做來幫助湖人隊贏球。 : 我直覺得反應是Kobe不該減少出手，他是聯盟前五名的球員，他是聯盟得分王且 : 有著很棒的命中率。這是重點－他有很棒的命中率。但我還是要說，當你有這麼 : 棒的隊友在隊伍裡，你還是不該要出手這麼多。 你說的很棒隊友,一個今年只打兩場比賽,一個休了一個月 一個第四節會被人家駭,請問要傳給誰? : 我不認為一直逃避這個話題對貴版是好事情，這在國外的湖人論壇都討論到 : 翻掉的話題，為什麼在這裡不能討論呢？難道Kobe不是湖人隊的一員嗎？大 : 家討論難道不是希望湖人戰績變得更好嗎？ 沒有人在逃避,而是這話題早就討論到爛掉了,日經文實在很難提起興趣 沒有人禁止你討論,但是請你言之有物,有自己的看法 不是看到文章就按x,只有小腦在思考 至於你的動機,恩,如果我轉一篇酸豪哥的文章到Lin板, 也可以說我希望豪哥好就沒事了這樣? -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 111.250.68.62
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12/21 01:38, , 1F
林版是球員版 可能要轉到火箭版吧
12/21 01:38, 1F
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12/21 01:38, , 2F
其實酸酸我翻到一半，原文有說 他也想知道到底是kobe出手
12/21 01:38, 2F
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12/21 01:39, , 3F
太多造成輸球，還是隊友不爭氣導致kobe出手太多
12/21 01:39, 3F
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12/21 01:40, , 4F
But I didn't want to jump to conclusions simply based
12/21 01:40, 4F
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12/21 01:40, , 5F
richard大這篇是另外一個更值得深思的觀點
12/21 01:40, 5F
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12/21 01:40, , 6F
on the numbers
12/21 01:40, 6F
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12/21 01:40, , 7F
I wanted to know whether Bryant needed to be reigned
12/21 01:40, 7F
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12/21 01:40, , 8F
正確與否不一定 但至少比上一篇有信服力與邏輯的多
12/21 01:40, 8F
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12/21 01:40, , 9F
中肯 推
12/21 01:40, 9F
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12/21 01:41, , 10F
in, or whether he's simply shooting so much because
12/21 01:41, 10F
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12/21 01:41, , 11F
the Lakers' roster is so limited
12/21 01:41, 11F
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12/21 01:41, , 12F
and it's the only chance they have to stay in games.
12/21 01:41, 12F
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12/21 01:42, , 13F
他去問這些不具名的就是因為他說他覺得不該只從數據下結
12/21 01:42, 13F
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12/21 01:42, , 14F
論，因為他也不能武斷的說是kobe射太多所以湖人輸球
12/21 01:42, 14F
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12/21 01:43, , 15F
還是因為湖人其他人太爛了，所以他才要一肩扛下
12/21 01:43, 15F
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12/21 01:44, , 16F
直接說結論 兩種都有
12/21 01:44, 16F
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12/21 01:44, , 17F
KB確實有在隊友打順的時候 還是腦熱自幹
12/21 01:44, 17F
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12/21 01:45, , 18F
也有隊友不行時 自己一肩扛起
12/21 01:45, 18F
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12/21 01:45, , 19F
兩種都討論到快爛了
12/21 01:45, 19F
推
12/21 01:51, , 20F
我要說的是人家專欄作家也知道不要那麼武斷才進行訪問
12/21 01:51, 20F
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12/21 01:51, , 21F
u大想回的真的都跟我很像...
12/21 01:51, 21F
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12/21 01:52, , 22F
那能不能反過來說 jamison沒投一堆三分就是對方戰術奏效?
12/21 01:52, 22F
推
12/21 01:53, , 23F
推一下 統計最怕遇到這種因果弄不清的問題
12/21 01:53, 23F
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12/21 01:53, , 24F
以這篇的內容量來說,他稱不上留空間給讀者進行判斷
12/21 01:53, 24F
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12/21 01:54, , 25F
至少你提供足夠的訊息量做客觀頗析,結論才留給讀者
12/21 01:54, 25F
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12/21 01:54, , 26F
而不是這種懶得找資料就說不武斷下結論...
12/21 01:54, 26F
推
12/21 01:55, , 27F
這篇中肯多了
12/21 01:55, 27F
推
12/21 01:56, , 28F
我喜歡這篇文章的論點,三萬分是有代價的 DM操kb操成這
12/21 01:56, 28F
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12/21 01:57, , 29F
樣也不是沒來由
12/21 01:57, 29F
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12/21 02:03, , 30F
我想反過來說，原po的論點也能用專欄作家的看法反駁
12/21 02:03, 30F
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12/21 02:03, , 31F
有一段提到就是讓kobe大量得分，別讓其他人入狀態
12/21 02:03, 31F
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12/21 02:04, , 32F
那你就知道這事本來就不完全是一邊的錯了
12/21 02:04, 32F
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12/21 02:04, , 33F
如果這段成立，那kobe的好表現就成了理所當然的現象
12/21 02:04, 33F
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12/21 02:04, , 34F
還來吵～
12/21 02:04, 34F
推
12/21 02:06, , 35F
現在不止林板不能講 連火箭和總板都快變林板了
12/21 02:06, 35F
推
12/21 02:23, , 36F
已經討論到爛了 老科就是這樣 他不會改
12/21 02:23, 36F
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12/21 02:23, , 37F
改了不就更強?
12/21 02:23, 37F
推
12/21 02:27, , 38F
也許吧
12/21 02:27, 38F
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12/21 02:27, , 39F
不是很在意他的出手 比較在意他的防守....
12/21 02:27, 39F
還有 54 則推文
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12/21 11:46, , 94F
現在問題就是KB在防守端放火有時候會大過他進攻端的貢獻
12/21 11:46, 94F
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12/21 11:47, , 95F
這要看他自己怎麼分配體力了 Nash回來球權回歸應該會好轉
12/21 11:47, 95F
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12/21 11:47, , 96F
比賽拉鋸時 守下兩分跟攻下兩分一樣重要 唉
12/21 11:47, 96F
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12/21 11:47, , 97F
如果還是繼續放火 那我看這張約跑完他早點退休比較好 XD
12/21 11:47, 97F
推
12/21 12:02, , 98F
現在防守問題會被放大跟在KB旁邊的是Duhon有點關係
12/21 12:02, 98F
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12/21 12:02, , 99F
KB和Morris先發配的幾場就比較沒這麼慘 Morris去守持球進
12/21 12:02, 99F
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12/21 12:02, , 100F
攻速度快的後衛單防效果還不錯 雖然有時候他輪轉防守也有
12/21 12:02, 100F
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12/21 12:02, , 101F
點問題 但至少沒Duhon這麼慘 單防協防都不行
12/21 12:02, 101F
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12/21 12:02, , 102F
如果KB確定要轉打SF 就看Meeks和Nash的後防會不會好一點
12/21 12:02, 102F
推
12/21 12:03, , 103F
太中肯了! 很討厭那種搞不懂因果關係只會亂酸的人
12/21 12:03, 103F
推
12/21 12:39, , 104F
理查中肯XD
12/21 12:39, 104F
推
12/21 13:02, , 105F
推 因果關係要搞清楚
12/21 13:02, 105F
推
12/21 13:34, , 106F
我看是一半一半靠老柯咬分很常見 不過末節劇場也不是假的
12/21 13:34, 106F
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12/21 13:35, , 107F
那Kobe想力挽狂瀾增加出手時 勝率卻不高 代表這作法的必要
12/21 13:35, 107F
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12/21 13:36, , 108F
性是否該重新檢討? 而不是每次都說 "啊就他能攻啊"這種
12/21 13:36, 108F
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12/21 13:36, , 109F
理由
12/21 13:36, 109F
推
12/21 13:37, , 110F
老柯各項命中率還是相當不錯 我想文章想表達的是某些時刻
12/21 13:37, 110F
推
12/21 13:41, , 111F
讓老柯進入單打模式是他們樂見
12/21 13:41, 111F
噓
12/21 18:05, , 112F
呵呵 理查中墾~
12/21 18:05, 112F
推
12/21 18:47, , 113F
說得很對! 因果關係搞不清楚是原文最大的問題
12/21 18:47, 113F
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12/21 18:49, , 114F
其實原作者只要看kobe是在湖人領先時 還是落後時出手多
12/21 18:49, 114F
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12/21 18:50, , 115F
就可以解答這問題 可惜他沒有分析這點
12/21 18:50, 115F
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12/21 19:01, , 116F
人家原文就告訴你 他要去搞清楚到底誰是因誰是果才訪問的
12/21 19:01, 116F
推
12/21 21:13, , 117F
所以"因果關係搞不清楚是原文最大的問題" 他自己都承認了!!
12/21 21:13, 117F
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12/21 21:14, , 118F
明明可以用更漂亮的數據來論證 他偏不拿 也許是拿不出來吧?
12/21 21:14, 118F
推
12/21 21:59, , 119F
臉腫起來了!!!!
12/21 21:59, 119F
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12/22 00:42, , 120F
人家想保持客觀不武斷下結論去採訪變成他自己承認文章有
12/22 00:42, 120F
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12/22 00:44, , 121F
問題......人家都問了湖人的對手覺得這樣就能找出答案
12/22 00:44, 121F
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12/22 00:44, , 122F
他覺得夠證據了，結果本文質疑這些不具名的不做數
12/22 00:44, 122F
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12/22 00:44, , 123F
簡單問一句，那如果這些人都確實是湖人的對手看法
12/22 00:44, 123F
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12/22 00:45, , 124F
能不能下結論?
12/22 00:45, 124F
推
12/22 09:07, , 125F
推
12/22 09:07, 125F
推
12/22 09:11, , 126F
推這篇 反正某些人就是只看到他想看的
12/22 09:11, 126F
推
12/22 09:15, , 127F
我不確定原文作者到底有沒有偏見 但維持"表面中肯"是西方人
12/22 09:15, 127F
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12/22 09:16, , 128F
的習慣. 我們都知道統計數字有時會騙人 但可信度還是比訪問
12/22 09:16, 128F
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12/22 09:19, , 129F
高上許多. 原作者大可以提出 kobe會在領先時一直幹 幹到
12/22 09:19, 129F
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12/22 09:20, , 130F
變成輸球 還是在落後時一直幹 最後仍無法逆轉
12/22 09:20, 130F
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12/22 09:23, , 131F
多數版友都不認為kobe在落後時一直自己來, 是最好的打法
12/22 09:23, 131F
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12/22 09:25, , 132F
但是"只要kobe少出手 湖人就會變強"這種論點實在是太簡化了
12/22 09:25, 132F
推
12/23 22:57, , 133F
這篇太中肯了 尤其是加班那段實在感同身受
12/23 22:57, 133F
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