Re: [討論] 90年代的溫網是否真的很乏味?
不好意思 佔用一點版面
我發現下面這一篇的論點還蠻「耐人尋味」的
這人立場鮮明，未必中肯，但對納豆的發言拳拳到肉
可以說戰意十足（！）
但或許也說出"一些老球迷"的心聲吧～
翻出來給大家參考參考
=========================================================================
http://ruansfedererblog.com/?p=4421
“Personally, to watch a Pete Sampras versus Goran Ivanisevic match, or one
between those kind of players, is not enjoyable,”
“It’s not really tennis, it is a few swings of the racquet. It was less
eye-catching than what we do now. Everyone enjoys the tennis we play much
more. I am not saying we are playing better tennis, just more enjoyable
tennis. For me, in the past it was just serve, serve, serve.”
（↑上面這段就是Nadal所說的話）
I don’t know about you, but I found these comments to be quite
inappropriate. And these comments come after the first set of Nadal’s third
round match against a serve-and-volley player with a big serve. Nadal won the
first set in a tie break against Muller after Muller had set points. This
makes his comments even more suspect. If he won the first set easily against
Muller it’s a different story, but now it sounds like he is having
difficulty with a player like Ivanisevic and Sampras and is basically trying
to downplay what they achieved. Saying that it is not real tennis comes off
as extremely arrogant. And this coming from somebody who plays possibly the
most boring game in the history of the sport. The irony is thick here. If
Djokovic said this it would be a different story. But Nadal’s relentless
moonballing is not in the slightest more interesting than a
Sampras/Ivanisevic match.
我認為Nadal的發言很不恰當耶！
而且這是Nadal在溫布頓第三輪面對「發球上網型球員」─Muller
並在第一盤搶七決勝局 面臨了對手盤末點辛苦地救回來之後所做的評論
如果他是很輕鬆的贏下第一盤的話 那又是另外一番故事了
但事實擺在前面的是他對於山大王或伊凡這種球員有障礙
Nadal試著輕描淡寫這類球員的成就
顯示了他極度的傲慢～
這樣的言論出自這樣一個可能是「史上比賽最無趣的人」之嘴
（後面會解釋為什麼他這樣認為）
真是極度諷刺阿～
如果是Djo講出這番話 那又是另外一番故事了
Nadal的月亮球（moonball）並沒有比山大王或伊凡的比賽有趣到哪裡阿～
It is directly at the opposite side of the spectrum. Moving from one extreme
to the other solves nothing. You need conditions where all styles are
possible. These days it’s all about base line duels. It’s about who hits
the hardest, runs most balls down, and can outlast his opponent physically.
Tennis have moved from one opposite to the other, which doesn’t really solve
anything. In fact the previous generation was more interesting, given that
you had a variety of conditions which resulted in a variety of playing
styles. Grass was really fast, which brought out the serve/volley players
while clay was really slow which suited the base liners. And then there was
the hard courts which was in between and allowed for both attacking and
defensive play. These days all the surfaces have been homogenized.
這是光譜對立的兩端
從一個極端到另一個極端 並沒有解決任何事情
現今網壇都是底線之爭
講的是誰抽球最有力、追球最積極並且比對手的耐操
網球從一個極端轉移到了另一邊......
事實上 上一個世代有趣多了！！
因為有很多的條件導致不同的比賽風格～
像是草地非常快 所以造就了發球上網型球員
然而紅土非常慢 所以成就了許多底線型選手
另外還有硬地球場介於兩個極端之間 可以滿足攻擊型與防禦型打法
如今 這些球場看起來都差不多了～
Add to that the racquet and string technology and all you see is players
grinding it out from the base line. I’m not saying I enjoyed
Sampras/Ivanisevic matches. I found it just as boring as Nadal’s
moonballing. That is why these statements are so ironic and uncalled for. It
shows disrespect to previous generations, and makes him seem arrogant. At
least if his own game was more interesting he would not have looked so
arrogant. But either way it is important to respect previous generations. You
would never see Roger saying what Nadal said. If anyone could have an opinion
about playing styles of previous generations it’s Roger, given that he plays
the most attractive game in the history of the sport. Instead, he appears
much more respectful:
加上現在的網拍和穿線技術
你所看到的就是......所有球員都在底線奮戰！
我不是說我喜愛山大王或伊凡的比賽
我認為那和Nadal的moonball一樣無趣
這也就是為什麼Nadal的言論如此諷刺
那顯示了他對過去世代的不尊重
使他看起來如此的自慢
如果他的比賽稍稍有趣一點的話就不會看起來那麼自傲了
但怎麼樣還是要尊重一下學長阿！！
如果說有誰可以對於網球比賽風格有所批評
那也只有費神有這個資格
因為他的打法是史上最迷人的啦！！
但是呢 他的言論顯得尊重前輩很多：
Q. Jimmy Connors the other day made kind of a Jimmy Connors type point saying
he felt the rivalries in this era were soft. Can you talk about that.
問：
康老之前發表了一個很「康老式」的論點
他認為這個世代的競爭太嫩雞了啦！！
你有什麼意見嗎？
ROGER FEDERER: It’s hard for me to talk about his generation because I don’
t remember him much from playing. I mean, I was hitting with a junior the
other day, and he didn’t remember seeing any matches of Pete. It’s like, C’
mon. The guy just played 10 years ago. That’s how quick it goes,
unfortunately.
費神：
對我而言 我很難去評論他的世代 因為我不記得他的比賽......
我的意思是.....我那時候是還是國中生
他們的比賽不過是十年前而已 但很不幸地 時間過得很快～
I can only talk about it from hearing. But obviously the rules have changed
quite drastically. So we’re not allowed to do all sort of crazy stuff out on
the court, otherwise we get penalised, fined, all that stuff. You don’t want
to be a bad sport either toward your opponent.
我能說的都是聽說而已～
但很明顯 規則已經做了巨大的改變
我們不被允許在球場上做一些瘋狂的舉動
不然會被處罰、罰款.....
If that’s what he means, I can understand some points with him. But it’s
not as easy as it seems. I think we play with a lot of respect for the game
still, which I think is most important, to be quite honest, that we respect
what has been done before, like, for instance, from players like Connors and
McEnroe, Laver, back to when it all started really.
I think that’s very important that we don’t forget the roots of the game.
Every generation is different. Our rivalries are different. They might be
different in five to ten years. You have to enjoy the ones that are happening
at the moment.
如果這是康老想表達的意思 我可以理解他的點啦～
我認為我們是懷著一顆感恩的心在比賽耶
更重要的是 我們尊重過去學長做過的一切！！
我們沒有忘記網球的根源
每個世代都不一樣
我們的競爭對手也不同了～
在五年或十年之內可能還會不一樣
你必須enjoy在每個不同的當下！！！
Obviously Roger is the more respectful one. It is always said that Roger is
arrogant and that Nadal is humble. But this is clearly proof of the contrary.
I’m not out to bash Nadal here. I just thought these words of Nadal was
interesting and revealed a lot about his character and the state of the game.
I think what he said was very self-centered. It appears as though he thinks
the way he plays the game is the way it should be played, while there are
many fans losing interest in the game because of the way he plays. You know I
don’t have a problem with base line tennis per se. I happen to love Djokovic
’s game, even though I don’t like the person that much. I have no problem
at all with attacking base line tennis, but I have little time for defensive
moonballing and running down every ball until you’re opponent makes a
mistake.
（回到作者言論）
很明顯 費神說話就是上道啦～
常常有人說費神自大而納豆謙卑
但以上就是最清楚的反證了～
我不是要批判Nadal
我只是覺得Nadal講這些話很耐人尋味
而且大大地顯現了他的人格特質還有他在比賽中的地位
他就是很自我中心嘛
他認為他的打法才是網球比賽應該要有的打法
儘管很多球迷因為他這種打法而失去了對比賽的興趣
我不是對底線型球員有意見
我喜歡Djo的打法 雖然我不喜歡他個人
我對攻擊型底線球員沒什麼意見
但對防守型的月亮球 還有追著每顆球跑直到你的對手失誤就......
You may as well say that is not tennis. A Sampras/Ivanisevic match may not
have been very interesting, but at least they played attacking tennis and
took risks. There is very little risk indeed involved in Nadal’s game. It is
all about retrieving and driving the opponent out of his mind. There is
nothing pretty about it. What takes more courage, going for aces on second
serves and coming to the net on break point down, or retrieving until your
opponent falters? Nadal is often seen as the courageous warrior while Roger
is seen as the talented but mentally fragile one. There are several myths
about Nadal that needs debunking. I think I have done a pretty good job in
debunking the myths that he is humble and courageous. There are of course
some truth to these things, but I think I have shown that they are more like
half-truths.
你同樣可以說他那種打法不是網球阿～
山大王/伊凡的比賽也許不是那麼有趣
但至少他們敢進攻、願意冒風險！！
但是Nadal的比賽很少有風險
不斷回球並且讓對手失去理智 這並不光采......
納豆常常被視為大膽的戰士
而費神卻看起來好像有才華但心理素質較弱
其實很多關於納豆的迷思是需要被破除滴～
我想對於破除「納豆是謙卑而大膽」的迷思 我做的很棒
當然某種程度上這種迷思還是有一定的真實
但我至少顯示了這比較像是「半真實」而已
If anything I think Nadal should be grateful that he is playing in an era
which suits his game style. It would have been much tougher going for him on
the fast grass in the era of Sampras and Ivanisevic. It is doubtful that he
would have won any Wimbledon titles at all, or hard court slams for that
matter. Given this fact he should be a lot more respectful towards the
previous generation, as opposed to disrespecting it.
如果有任何我認為納豆應該要感激的.....
那就是他處在一個非常適合他擊球風格的年代！
如果他在山大王和伊凡那種快速草地時代
那麼他在職業生涯中能否得到溫布頓或硬地大滿貫頭銜 就相當值得懷疑了～
因為上面這些緣故 他應該要對過去世代表現更多更多的尊敬！
--
這裡～ 是沒有宵夜的戰場
火藥味十足的對決！
--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 114.36.90.140
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